Health Care Debate

[badaace1973]

Okay heres a place we can discuss the health care debate if anyone is paying attention to probably the most important subject that could change our lives in our generation. I hope everyone is listening and learning and educating themselves and then speaking out to your state reps because we all should have a say in this. It is roughly 15 percent of our National GDP and of course it affects everyone and all of our children and grandchildren in the future. So lets have a good spirited debate. Please those on the right don't just listen to Fox news and repeat Republican talking points unless you've researched and looked into what your saying is true and not just what you heard. Also those on the left don't just repeat what you hear on MSNBC or that whatever Obama does has to right just because your a Dem. Please take the time to actually do the research it takes to know what your saying is truthfull to the best of your ability and let here your true opinions and actual things you've witnessed or went through yourself or someone you know. Now with that said here is my two cents

I am an Independent that leans democratic but I won't hesitate to state when I disagree with them. What gets me is how someone can believe in something just because they are one party or the other without actually hearing or learning anything about the subject before hand. It's like answering a question yes or no before you hear the question. Anyways I believe we should first consider the fact that we know something has to change. To many people don't have insurance or have insurance that denies them coverage when they need it the most. Others have great insurance but it getting more and more expensive and sooner or later they won't be able to afford it. Others who are rich don't want anything to change because they are scared they can't buy the best if it's not there anymore because of some kind of change. So that's where we start. Now who benefits if nothing happens. Big insurance and the politicians who they contribute large amounts of money too. Now who could benefit from change. Practically everyone except the super rich who can afford anythng. Now who could be hurt by changing it but changing it for the worse. Well that is hard to do in the first place considering what we've just said but It could hurt some people if say they are forced to insurance that is not as good as what they already had which again can't be many when the insurance companies do everything in their power to not cover or help someone because of profits. That to me is the biggest problem. It is the only industry in the world that makes more money by giving their customers less of a product or service. So to me the only way to truly fix health care would be to take the insurance companies out of the mix all together. Then you pay doctors to do their jobs and the better they did it the more they would make because of word of mouth and so on and so forth. But then that doesnt answer the problem of those who can't afford to pay a doctor. So then insurance does have a place so it can pool more people so that those who can't afford a catastrophic event will be covered because they have paid for insurance. Sounds like what we have now accept the insurance companies try to screw those people who need them because they are a company looking for profits. So lets keep the insurance companies but regulate them through the government so they can't deny people that need it and make them non profit organizations so they are not trying to make a profit but they are providing jobs for people and providing coverage and the profits when made give bonuses to the workers and if they are not making a profit the government can subsidise them to make sure their workers are making a living. I know this isnt perfect but something in that area has to be done. We have to make insurance companies stop being forced to make a profit at the expense of their customers and we have to cover everyone even those who can't afford it so that we don't have people running up emergency room bills which causes health care to cost more which causes tax payers and insurance payers to have to pay more. So the only real solution is to make everyone pay in based on what they can afford like taxes and cover everyone. Then the insurance companies make up the difference by having more clients because everyone is paying in and the government is helping those who can't afford it so they are not left out then all that is left is to regulate the insurance companies so they can't simply jack up the price and the way to do that is by competition. So The government can offer an insurance plan and the insurance companies can compete with that so they can still stay in business but they can't monopolize it. Then you can choose to accept the governments plan or stay with a private plan that you may have now or one you choose later that starts up because of this competition. Now you see why its easy for the big insurance companies to scare people into not wanting any change at all because this is very complicated and can't be reduced to sound bites like killing grandma or death panels or big gov take over. See why its hard for those who want to do the right thing to explain this it takes alot of time and you just can't do it in a 30 second sound bite. But you can scare people and mislead people and lie to people in sound bites. So please think when you hear the next sound bites on all sides how complicated this issue is and think about who benefits from nothing being done and who benefits if something gets done. I can't wait to hear some opinions that are from real people. Im sorry this was so long but it truly is this complicated. But we can't stay the way everything is because costs are doubling and tripling every few years. And remember medicare is gov run and a majority of seniors want medicare to stay. So don't be fooled by gov run is evil. Sometimes it is but sometimes its needed to protect the many from the few powerful. Sometimes it's the opposite of that and we have to figure out which is which and that takes informed research and learning and not soundbites from political parties or lies from those who are scared of change.

[TerpZone]

I'm sorry, but I refuse to read a paragraph that large with no breaks in it... too difficult and straining.

We've had this debate before, and I'm firmly against any reform that has been suggested. They're all bad ideas.

[markjfixit]

I read some then I needed a nap, thats a long a** post!!

[sweetpea]

What about people who don't work simply because they don't want to (or aren't even legally able to because they shouldn't be in this country)? I'm sure there is not an easy answer to the health care debate and I don't believe it's a "one size fits all" solution at all. I would be quite fearful of a government owned/operated insurance company. I just read on one site that said that gov insurance could cost less because the gov't doesn't need to make a profit. Ohhh really? Check this out.. U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time The US National Debt rises astronomically all the time. $38,000 debt for every citizen! Do you really believe that the gov't won't try to make a profit?

[TerpZone]

Do you really believe that the gov't won't try to make a profit?

Yes, I do. There are hundreds of reasons to oppose govt. health care, but the governments true intentions are really at the forefront.

[badaace1973]

What about the push back from the insurance companies. What about the price of health care doubling or tripling every few years you have to admit something must be done and sorry about my terrible writing skills just got on a roll and didnt break anywhere its a health care debate not a writing debate LOL. But my point is No one person is Government But these Giant Corporations like the health care industry are run and owned by a handfull of billionaires who are scared of losing their wealth. They could care less if your uncle gets cancer and finds out he forgot to tell his insurance company he had an ingrown toe nail when he was two so they use it to deny him coverage. Yes that's an exageration but not by much LOL

[badaace1973]

I had to wake myself up twice

[badaace1973]

We cover those guys because it's cheaper than waiting until they have to go to the emergency room and tax payers filt the bill and if they are here illegal as soon as they are stable we should ship them off to were they came from and the ones that don't work the government has to pay and then they should have to do community service or fines for not having some kind of insurance that the government offers. Thats why we all have to buy in or it won't work

[TerpZone]

We cover those guys because it's cheaper than waiting until they have to go to the emergency room and tax payers filt the bill and if they are here illegal as soon as they are stable we should ship them off to were they came from and the ones that don't work the government has to pay and then they should have to do community service or fines for not having some kind of insurance that the government offers. Thats why we all have to buy in or it won't work

And for those of us that DON'T WANT to pay for insurance and resent being forced into it?

[badaace1973]

Same as having to have car insurance for the good of the community

[TerpZone]

Same as having to have car insurance for the good of the community

Nowhere near the same thing.

[Tomturkey46]

I live in Canada where we have Heath Care. It works, you may have to wait a bit but it works. And to those nay-sayers, just one fact. In the U.S.A. 50% of bankuptices are related to heath care, in Canada none go bankupt due to heath costs.

Tom Cherry(AKA The Turkey)

[TerpZone]

I live in Canada where we have Heath Care. It works, you may have to wait a bit but it works. And to those nay-sayers, just one fact. In the U.S.A. 50% of bankuptices are related to heath care, in Canada none go bankupt due to heath costs.

Tom Cherry(AKA The Turkey)

How many new medicines and medical procedures come out of Canada? The USA?

Yeah, I thought so.

[kingsnthahole]

The fact is, we live in the U.S. and the U.S. is all about fast dealing, gun weilding a$$hole capitalists who will screw their grandma for an extra $100,000. Do you really think we will have free national health care? I don't, and i don't agree with it at all. I have been working some form of employment since age 12....AGE 12 anyone who says they can't find work, IS NOT LOOKING HARD ENOUGH. People say they can't find work but honestly, they just choose not to do work thats offered. And i'm supposed to feel sorry for these people because they get sick and die because they don't have healthcare? Not a frozen dookie in hell's chance! I currently DON'T have health insurance, however I am eligable Oct. 1, 2009...I will be paying 50 bucks a month for healthcare...and i think that's the best thing since sliced bread. I am conservative/mildly republican and feel that I have paid my dues, going through high school and college and shelled out over 20K in school money, and i'm supposed to want someone to be taken care of by the gov't? DUDE, IF YOU HAVE A COLD GET COUGH MEDICINE AND EAT A HEALTHY DIET, YOU'LL BE FINE! IF YOU ARE SICK AND DYING, THATS NATURES WAY OF TELLING YOU THAT YOU'RE NOT CUT OUT FOR THIS THING CALLED LIVING...It's called survival of the fittest! When a lion gets sick and hungry and can't run fast enough to catch food, do we help it out by giving it free food and medicine? HELLLLL NOO! why should we do this for human beings? we are JUST animals too, aren't we?

[TerpZone]

The fact is, we live in the U.S. and the U.S. is all about fast dealing, gun weilding a$$hole capitalists who will screw their grandma for an extra $100,000. Do you really think we will have free national health care? I don't, and i don't agree with it at all. I have been working some form of employment since age 12....AGE 12 anyone who says they can't find work, IS NOT LOOKING HARD ENOUGH. People say they can't find work but honestly, they just choose not to do work thats offered. And i'm supposed to feel sorry for these people because they get sick and die because they don't have healthcare? Not a frozen dookie in hell's chance! I currently DON'T have health insurance, however I am eligable Oct. 1, 2009...I will be paying 50 bucks a month for healthcare...and i think that's the best thing since sliced bread. I am conservative/mildly republican and feel that I have paid my dues, going through high school and college and shelled out over 20K in school money, and i'm supposed to want someone to be taken care of by the gov't? DUDE, IF YOU HAVE A COLD GET COUGH MEDICINE AND EAT A HEALTHY DIET, YOU'LL BE FINE! IF YOU ARE SICK AND DYING, THATS NATURES WAY OF TELLING YOU THAT YOU'RE NOT CUT OUT FOR THIS THING CALLED LIVING...It's called survival of the fittest! When a lion gets sick and hungry and can't run fast enough to catch food, do we help it out by giving it free food and medicine? HELLLLL NOO! why should we do this for human beings? we are JUST animals too, aren't we?

While I don't necessarily agree with the thought that we don't have a duty to help our fellow person in need, I agree they we shouldn't give them huge handouts if they refuse to help themselves.

[TerpZone]

My post last time we had this debate:

Capitalism is alive and healthy, and the best system for this country.

At my age with no family, I'd prefer to save the money on health insurance and go uninsured. I'm a healthy enough individual for this to be an economically sound decision and the last thing i want is for the government to make the decision for me. Its not their place and I don't want to be forced into health insurance be it with required health care like is in place in Massachusetts or with universal health care where it comes out of my taxes.

Systems like the system in Massachusetts should be in place but WITHOUT a mandate requiring the insurance. Insurance should be allowed to be sold across state lines, and like the system in MA, there should be places that show you every option available. (think travelocity for health insurance) I would support this. It will get affordable health care to most everyone. Add some restraints on the insurance companies, and bam, we don't need some ****ing french socialist system that ****s all but the lower class. This would ease up the prices of the private system and make options available to those who cannot afford it currently.

It also allows those who want to pay more to be treated with greater celerity.

This is a system of capitalism. This is a system of personal responsibility. This is a system that PROVIDED INCENTIVES to pharmaceuticals to develop new drugs and for students to enter a track towards medical services. This a system that provides some of the brightest minds and some of the best doctors in the world.

Nationalize health care, and these incentives are gone. We are forced into buying insurance that some of us don't want. Cutting edge drugs will no longer be developed because no company will see reason to pound money into developing them without hope of any fiscal return. And the doctors in this country will become run of the mill and no longer the best in their fields.

(edit--I have not proofread this so excuse any mistakes with grammar or incorrect words)


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