General Poker Advice (PLEASE READ)

[eejit101]

Ok, so i know ive taken about a year and a half away from online poker, but during that time ive played a lot more live, and while that in some way has deteriorated my online game, its improved the overall flow of my game in tournaments.

Here's some random things i just wanted to share....


At no point online can you ever think in terms of what your opponent should be thinking. Live play this is fine as you chat, you only play a few hands together, theres a bit of banter normally, and you pick up things mentally, and even sub-consciously, that you use to your advantage. For example i know when i play at my local casino in Blackpool that half the people there are of a certain level, so i know pretty uch all the time how they think when i do certain things, and this works brilliantly. What i have found out since returning to online play is that this doesnt work so well. Mainly this is to do with what i call the "bonding" time. Basically you dont. Your playing against a computer. You dont interract, as what you may chat about, to be honest, could all be bulls**t. So if your holding say KQs to a flop of J 6 2, and your 1st to act and check, and the opponent bets 1/5th of his and your stack, in live play you should be able to work out if a raise makes him fold his J in this spot, but online, this play is infiniely more risky, mainly because of the lack of knowledge you actually have.

I know some people who play seriously use tracking software and such, which, yeah, could help your odds of making a correct play in a spot like that, but generally you cant.



Secondly, ive noticed just HOW much easier it is to play way over your bankroll it is online.

If you have $1,000 in your pocket, and thats all you had for a month, would you spend $500 in one tournament??? Unless it was a WSOP event, i doubt it (unless your a degenerate gambler). Online its just numbers, it isnt real money until it gets into your bank and into your pocket.

Now luckily i know most of you just play for free, which is what i used to do.

To this day can remember depositing my first $50 on party poker, playing 0.5/1 limit poker, and losing it in about 45 minutes, which for those blinds is fast!!!


Ever since that moment i think for about 2 years i got a much better player, along the way havin some great wins including a $55 headhunter on jetset for $2k (y first big cash), a $3 rebuy on stars win (6,000 entrys) for $6.3k. And culinating in the now sadly legendary $65,000 win on paradise poker.

Now you may have noticed my sig is never win $65k. There s a reason for this.

Let me ask you what your first reaction is when u win something this big.

1- Relief
2- Utter Joy
3- Shaking
4- "My god i am awesome at poker"

the problem with 4 is simple. I am now gonna tell you what i did with the said $65k. Which is embarrasing and hardly anyone knows this, but it may help you guys.



To start with i sent a guy who had at one point 20% in me but we haggled that down $7.5k i think, numbers are sketchy as this is from memory.

So count down from $65k in your heads. I basically lost about $2k in withdrawal fees and currency transfers, as on an amount that big the sites do get a small cut, on your general $5 deposit its about 2c, but on a big cashout its MASSIVE. Plus neteller has to get a fee from somewhere.

So were now at $55k.

Im gonna sa i spent some, as anyone would. I think i went shopping, new TV, phone, clothes, presents for the Mrs e.t.c.. Round that off to $5k. (it was fun!)

So, $50k left. I owed my parents some money so i paid that off ($42k left). I then paid some debts i had from moving in with my grilfriend and then she left her job to go to uni, and basically got us in the sh!t!!! Add this to some student debts i had and other general things, im left with about $15k.


So, $15k, some all new things, no debt, and a great memory right?

Problem is, i got to think i was better than i was. Yeah i played well, to the limit i could play at i feel at that time.

I can prove this by actually posting eveyr hand fromt hat tourney, but i wont. And i also can count the times i was all in in race situations - 4. And the amount of times i won a pot by being lucky -1. A6 vs AQ, had 8 outs on river and hit. From there i never stopped amassing chips, its like i had some kind of belief.

Problem is, with a win this big against such a big, and very talented field (5 final tablists from that day are well known online, including Mattg1985 (i think his name is) ), you can get a bit ****y.

What also doesnt help is winning the veyr next tournament you play in! $40 for a $700 prize (me and NDN played that, we came 1/2 out of the 80 ish runners, so we just chopped.) From there i thought i was awesome. I played in some crazy tourneys, stars/FT/UB/Para big weekly tourneys, some buyins were $550. Ive payed in 8 x $1100 sit and gos(cashing twice for a smal loss), 3 x $1,100 heads up turbos (wnning 2), a $2.5 HU game vs a FT Pro (lost with AK vs AQ all in preflop) and watchin my roll go down because im playing well over my limits as a poker player.

The basic rule of this nonsense is to make ou guys see that if you win say $1,000, or even have a lucky day like i did and have a HUGE win, your still the same player you were, you havent improved that much over ONE game, even Doyle Bruson at age 150 or whatever he is is still learning, you cant move up above your bankroll and stay there and continue to win money.

If you have $1k, you should play at a cash table with no more than $50 at one point, and in a tourney with no more than 2% of your roll. SnGs are variant due to number of paces paid and buyins e.t.c.

Streaks can last a long time. I was playing 3/6 NL with my money.... and managed at one point (before i went broke) to hve a run of 27, YES 27, straight coin flip or near as dammit losses. AK vs 55, that kind of thing. I also lost with the best hand infinately. Which gets back to management. If you only have $10, make it last, you wont become rich off it just playing with it all at once unless you have the same luck as a lottery winner, make it last, have fun, try and build it slowly, so that you can start to play with more at once, making each win decidedly more significant to your life. Winning $10 is nothing to anyone really, but $100 is. Thats a hell of a niht out, a nice meal/present/phone bill paid. Or if you sensible, and manage it, tht will become $200 soon, then who knows.

Just take care of yourselves, as i know 4 people thu this kind of thing who have gone bankrupt and ended up in OVER $100,000 of debt, sometimes to very wrong people.


Even NDN will agree with this I'm sure, but if we download a casio through his link hegets a small %, which is how he pays for all this that we enjoy regularly.

BUT....

NDN will first and foremost admit that he would not want ANYONE to get into any kind of debt or gambling problem, even if he was the one profiting from it. Ive worked at a casino doing bar work and croupiering, and ive been told all the threshold limits for players, looking for the gamblers, watching fr manic gambling, and even Casinos in WORLDWIDE chains know evyerone inside them enjoys the adrenaline, but some people cant live without it.



So - Look after yourselves!!! And dont become the next me

[NeverWinHere]

Excellent read eejit thanks!

[Lilred36]

Eejit great post, I agree totally.This my friends is why we miss EEjit.I do think most of us"me" play way over our heads,I to had a couple nice wins,not 65k but nice.I feel ya brother, I feel ya.

[dainiusss]

wow, great post.

[nodepositneeded]

We're just happy to have you back home eejit!

[Dallas12]

Great post eejit

[Tomturkey46]

Thank you for the nice read, eejit and your advice is very sound!! But I would think that you had a situtation that you landing in that would trap a lot of people. Playing over your head.. The warning is vailid and should be heeded.
Now that can also be placed on small winnings too. I have NOT made any big killings(I don't enter into many events where that would happen) but playing in small events I have made a few dollars which make a very pleasent sight in my bank account. Which I go out and have a little fun with lol

The Turkey

[eejit101]

Exactly...

1- live life
2- play poker.


IF doing 2 assissts one then great, but 2 should never become 1 (unless your sexualy compatible)

[Lilred36]

Very true Tom, glad to see you around.Will be seeing you at the tables soon I hope.I hope most of NDN members read these threads,some people here have seen alot.Wise and talented folks here,learn from there experiences.

[ianleel]

Im learning as I go thank you it will help.

[herlis]

nice post! its exactly what i was thinking about the money here , its all numbers. you wont miss them until its gone.

[ffcowboy76]

Great post eejit. I fell into the same trap with a much smaller win. I hit for about 3600 and cashed out the 3k. With the remaining 600 I went on a small streak pushing it to 800. I started to play the $1/$2 NL which was WAY over my bankroll. Shortly after jumping up to that level I was down to $50. I pissed away $750 in a heart beat. I wish I would of been smart and kept playing at the level that served me best, even if the profits were much smaller.

What happened to you will happen to all of us. The best we can do is learn for others mistakes and try no to do it ourselves.

[ferrengi]

Great post eejit. I fell into the same trap with a much smaller win. I hit for about 3600 and cashed out the 3k. With the remaining 600 I went on a small streak pushing it to 800. I started to play the $1/$2 NL which was WAY over my bankroll. Shortly after jumping up to that level I was down to $50. I pissed away $750 in a heart beat. I wish I would of been smart and kept playing at the level that served me best, even if the profits were much smaller.

What happened to you will happen to all of us. The best we can do is learn for others mistakes and try no to do it ourselves.

Good thing you cashed out the 3K. Most people would not have the discipline to cash out such a big percentage of their big win.

[vickid]

Ok, so i know ive taken about a year and a half away from online poker, but during that time ive played a lot more live, and while that in some way has deteriorated my online game, its improved the overall flow of my game in tournaments.

Here's some random things i just wanted to share....


At no point online can you ever think in terms of what your opponent should be thinking. Live play this is fine as you chat, you only play a few hands together, theres a bit of banter normally, and you pick up things mentally, and even sub-consciously, that you use to your advantage. For example i know when i play at my local casino in Blackpool that half the people there are of a certain level, so i know pretty uch all the time how they think when i do certain things, and this works brilliantly. What i have found out since returning to online play is that this doesnt work so well. Mainly this is to do with what i call the "bonding" time. Basically you dont. Your playing against a computer. You dont interract, as what you may chat about, to be honest, could all be bulls**t. So if your holding say KQs to a flop of J 6 2, and your 1st to act and check, and the opponent bets 1/5th of his and your stack, in live play you should be able to work out if a raise makes him fold his J in this spot, but online, this play is infiniely more risky, mainly because of the lack of knowledge you actually have.

I know some people who play seriously use tracking software and such, which, yeah, could help your odds of making a correct play in a spot like that, but generally you cant.



Secondly, ive noticed just HOW much easier it is to play way over your bankroll it is online.

If you have $1,000 in your pocket, and thats all you had for a month, would you spend $500 in one tournament??? Unless it was a WSOP event, i doubt it (unless your a degenerate gambler). Online its just numbers, it isnt real money until it gets into your bank and into your pocket.

Now luckily i know most of you just play for free, which is what i used to do.

To this day can remember depositing my first $50 on party poker, playing 0.5/1 limit poker, and losing it in about 45 minutes, which for those blinds is fast!!!


Ever since that moment i think for about 2 years i got a much better player, along the way havin some great wins including a $55 headhunter on jetset for $2k (y first big cash), a $3 rebuy on stars win (6,000 entrys) for $6.3k. And culinating in the now sadly legendary $65,000 win on paradise poker.

Now you may have noticed my sig is never win $65k. There s a reason for this.

Let me ask you what your first reaction is when u win something this big.

1- Relief
2- Utter Joy
3- Shaking
4- "My god i am awesome at poker"

the problem with 4 is simple. I am now gonna tell you what i did with the said $65k. Which is embarrasing and hardly anyone knows this, but it may help you guys.



To start with i sent a guy who had at one point 20% in me but we haggled that down $7.5k i think, numbers are sketchy as this is from memory.

So count down from $65k in your heads. I basically lost about $2k in withdrawal fees and currency transfers, as on an amount that big the sites do get a small cut, on your general $5 deposit its about 2c, but on a big cashout its MASSIVE. Plus neteller has to get a fee from somewhere.

So were now at $55k.

Im gonna sa i spent some, as anyone would. I think i went shopping, new TV, phone, clothes, presents for the Mrs e.t.c.. Round that off to $5k. (it was fun!)

So, $50k left. I owed my parents some money so i paid that off ($42k left). I then paid some debts i had from moving in with my grilfriend and then she left her job to go to uni, and basically got us in the sh!t!!! Add this to some student debts i had and other general things, im left with about $15k.


So, $15k, some all new things, no debt, and a great memory right?

Problem is, i got to think i was better than i was. Yeah i played well, to the limit i could play at i feel at that time.

I can prove this by actually posting eveyr hand fromt hat tourney, but i wont. And i also can count the times i was all in in race situations - 4. And the amount of times i won a pot by being lucky -1. A6 vs AQ, had 8 outs on river and hit. From there i never stopped amassing chips, its like i had some kind of belief.

Problem is, with a win this big against such a big, and very talented field (5 final tablists from that day are well known online, including Mattg1985 (i think his name is) ), you can get a bit ****y.

What also doesnt help is winning the veyr next tournament you play in! $40 for a $700 prize (me and NDN played that, we came 1/2 out of the 80 ish runners, so we just chopped.) From there i thought i was awesome. I played in some crazy tourneys, stars/FT/UB/Para big weekly tourneys, some buyins were $550. Ive payed in 8 x $1100 sit and gos(cashing twice for a smal loss), 3 x $1,100 heads up turbos (wnning one), and watchin my roll go down because im playing well over my limits as a poker player.

The basic rule of this nonsense is to make ou guys see that if you win say $1,000, or even have a lucky day like i did and have a HUGE win, your still the same player you were, you havent improved that much over ONE game, even Doyle Bruson at age 150 or whatever he is is still learning, you cant move up above your bankroll and stay there and continue to win money.

If you have $1k, you should play at a cash table with no more than $50 at one point, and in a tourney with no more than 2% of your roll. SnGs are variant due to number of paces paid and buyins e.t.c.

Streaks can last a long time. I was playing 3/6 NL with my money.... and managed at one point (before i went broke) to hve a run of 27, YES 27, straight coin flip or near as dammit losses. AK vs 55, that kind of thing. I also lost with the best hand infinately. Which gets back to management. If you only have $10, make it last, you wont become rich off it just playing with it all at once unless you have the same luck as a lottery winner, make it last, have fun, try and build it slowly, so that you can start to play with more at once, making each win decidedly more significant to your life. Winning $10 is nothing to anyone really, but $100 is. Thats a hell of a niht out, a nice meal/present/phone bill paid. Or if you sensible, and manage it, tht will become $200 soon, then who knows.

Just take care of yourselves, as i know 4 people thu this kind of thing who have gone bankrupt and ended up in OVER $100,000 of debt, sometimes to very wrong people.


Even NDN will agree with this I'm sure, but if we download a casio through his link hegets a small %, which is how he pays for all this that we enjoy regularly.

BUT....

NDN will first and foremost admit that he would not want ANYONE to get into any kind of debt or gambling problem, even if he was the one profiting from it. Ive worked at a casino doing bar work and croupiering, and ive been told all the threshold limits for players, looking for the gamblers, watching fr manic gambling, and even Casinos in WORLDWIDE chains know evyerone inside them enjoys the adrenaline, but some people cant live without it.



So - Look after yourselves!!! And dont become the next me

wow gfu but wow that sucks man omg i have done that sooo many times piss away the br mostly on ftp i swear i will never deposit there again hahah well man thanks for this post i will us this as a guide in future for my next few win

[taylovesthebeatles]

This was a very insightful and helpful post, thanks Eejit. This perspective is definitely a good thing to keep in mind, and we can all learn from it. I think you're exactly right about us all being the same person and poker player, no matter what our current run might be, win or lose.

[kingsnthahole]

thanks for that inspirational story, and i will agree with you 100% that if you play within your limits, you can have fun and maybe once in a while, get lucky and win real big...and you can do one of two things, cash out and make payments on the endless debt that is life, or try and turn that couple thousand into millions...honestly, i do have to say eej, WHY THE HELL DIDNT YOU TAKE 10K AND REG FOR THE WSOP RIGHT AWAY!!! i woulda done this in a heart beat before paying off debts...haha

Iv'e been playing with 45 bucks that i won in a freeroll in feb since then and havent bought into fulltilt since last summer, its all free, i play within my limits, and sometimes it gets down to about 15 bucks, where it is now, sometimes it gets to as much as 200...so im sitting back enjoying playing every day, and honing my skills for live poker....

thanks again eej

[thenutzaa1]

Great post eejit, you hit the part of poker that people don't think about at all. You can win money fast and lose it fast as well. I agree with you 100% and i actually went through this a little. First time playing poker was my freshmen year in college and i lost twenty bucks to my friends. Next day i put 200 on party poker and i got it up to 5000. Beginners luck because i know my skill now and i realized now that i was a fish at high limits online. i eventually lost all the money. Great lesson though because at that time it was just numbers to me and i knew nothing about poker.

Now my poker is mostly live cash game and tournaments and i blog on here to play a little online poker. Because you never know who is behind the computer.

anyways thanks for the post it was a good one.

[esmordan]

thanks for the post eejit...it was very inspirational.....i learned my lesson when i kinda did the same thing...it was a smaller win of only about 3300 but i cashed it out and then started spending it.....i mean i played within my limits but i played more often and i played more recklessly at the casino

once i lost about 1/2 my winnings i relised what i was doing and have gona back to playing my game tight and stck it to them when they make a mistake...i now have my BR or winning back up to its original 4500 but i know where you are comming from on a much smallerscale...gl on everything that you do and have fun at the tables

[ScareCrowAKA]

Wow very insightful, Good post. Thanks... The falls of gambling. Unlike a sport like baseball or basketball where over confidence in your abilities can help you go on a tear and play at a higher level. Its a little different in a game where no matter how good you play, a amount of luck is still needed to win. Thanks for the post.

[freeringo]

Great story
I know I won't go bankrupt playing poker
because I'm too cheap.
Never having played in a tourney over $12
except for 4-5 +$100 a seat satelites I won.
I have never played in a cash game either.
I did play in 1 live game on my birthday and took third
$25 entry. After 15 years I have cashed for over $13,000
and I have never deposited my own money once.
One month about 3 years ago, I had a nickle left on
my Intertops account. Played penny sit and goes, then
10 cent ones. Within a week I was playing $2 games and
amassed $30 bankroll and then hit a hot weekend.
In 3 days I cashed in 5 tourneys totaling $1350. I cashed out
and left $50, 2 months later I cashed out for $500.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that you don't need alot of money and
if you keep it at an affordable level, you can have
years of enjoyment and pay a few bills like I do.

[freeringo]

Too add to my story:
I originally started out playing a weekly free sports
betting contest called FREESB.COM. They payed out
top 50 places with cash into your Intertops account
and hats and t-shirts. Well I have still plenty of hats
and t-shirts around years later. I took second once
for $100 and a first for $250 a year later and alot of $10 prizes.
All my winnings I made sports bets with and was
good at basketball, not good at football. Betting was like a
roller coaster ride and be careful when you think you can out guess the bookie. One day I realized that I could play poker with my sportbook money.
So I started playing. In those days, Intertops was quite
young and had lots of guarenteed tourneys of $100 and $200
mostly and there never were enough players. It was like that
for almost 6 years and then they closed up shop. Months later they re-opened with new software, you all know the details more than I.
They got real cheap after that and my winnings were cut in half.
But during the hay day at Intertops I made alot of easy money
while learning how to play.

[freeringo]

There still is a free weekly sports betting contest.
They only pay top 10 places now and have a $100
top prize. They do offer a year long contest for
huge dollars, too. Another free way to start your bankroll.
Check out Intertops.net for details.
US players welcome cept those few states.

[eejit101]

Dunno why, fancied a bump

[navuta]

There are lots of thing to learn from you mister eejit..
We are all proud of you.
with that 65K winning you sure looks like a pro player.
U are my hero for sure, and without you all this forum would never have such a nice envoriment.
Thanks for all u have tought to us, and all we will learn in the future.
Imagine if u win 65K for the BAP... Can u try it?
We all respect u very much.

[TerpZone]

Dunno why, fancied a bump

don't lie. you fancied a bump because I asked you for a link to the thread.

And I hate you for winning 65k. That makes me jealous. JEALOUS