Healthcare debate

[eejit101]

In the UK, we pay a set amount out of our wages each week/month.

On wages of £300 ($500 a week), i usually pay $45 or so in National Insurance.

This gives me free healthcare at all time, and hugely discounted dental

[TerpZone]

In the UK, we pay a set amount out of our wages each week/month.

On wages of £300 ($500 a week), i usually pay $45 or so in National Insurance.

This gives me free healthcare at all time, and hugely discounted dental

You're living in a much smaller nation (that I miss living in more than anything in the world) that isn't at the helm of medical research.

And you're paying 13% in insurance? That's less than most people in the states pay now and would bring our normal pay taxes to well over 25% of our paychecks.

Neither the logistics nor the economies of nationalized health care would work in the US, and that's not the bring up the issue of removed private, corporate, incentives.

[freeringo]

You're living in a much smaller nation (that I miss living in more than anything in the world) that isn't at the helm of medical research.

And you're paying 13% in insurance? That's less than most people in the states pay now and would bring our normal pay taxes to well over 25% of our paychecks.

Neither the logistics nor the economies of nationalized health care would work in the US, and that's not the bring up the issue of removed private, corporate, incentives.

I honor your debate and oppinion but, you are not giving us any facts as to why you are against it.
Will it cost you more per month or less per month?
Does anyone know?
We need to all walk in each others shoes to really have a judgement on this subject.
I am already on National healthcare and I am OK with it. I get to see a doctor of my choice and get timely appointments.
Medicare has recently cut back on dental maintenance and optomentry.
We all have to pay something on our healthcare. Some can afford more than others. The American family budget was designed for families to pay less than 30% of our wages on housing. I pay 60% or more.
Without Medicare I would not ever be able to afford Health Insurance.
However, some of you may not know this but if you don't have Insurance, there is a thing called sliding scale payment option. I pay 25% of my bill at the doctors office for low income. This is cheaper than the $30 copay
Blue cross offers. Not to mention the $1500 deductable and monthly premiums that went up 42% this year from last year.

[TerpZone]

I honor your debate and oppinion but, you are not giving us any facts as to why you are against it.
Will it cost you more per month or less per month?
Does anyone know?
We need to all walk in each others shoes to really have a judgement on this subject.
I am already on National healthcare and I am OK with it. I get to see a doctor of my choice and get timely appointments.
Medicare has recently cut back on dental maintenance and optomentry.
We all have to pay something on our healthcare. Some can afford more than others. The American family budget was designed for families to pay less than 30% of our wages on housing. I pay 60% or more.
Without Medicare I would not ever be able to afford Health Insurance.
However, some of you may not know this but if you don't have Insurance, there is a thing called sliding scale payment option. I pay 25% of my bill at the doctors office for low income. This is cheaper than the $30 copay
Blue cross offers. Not to mention the $1500 deductable and monthly premiums that went up 42% this year from last year.

Capitalism is alive and healthy, and the best system for this country.

At my age with no family, I'd prefer to save the money on health insurance and go uninsured. I'm a healthy enough individual for this to be an economically sound decision and the last thing i want is for the government to make the decision for me. Its not their place and I don't want to be forced into health insurance be it with required health care like is in place in Massachusetts or with universal health care where it comes out of my taxes.

Systems like the system in Massachusetts should be in place but WITHOUT a mandate requiring the insurance. Insurance should be allowed to be sold across state lines, and like the system in MA, there should be places that show you every option available. (think travelocity for health insurance) I would support this. It will get affordable health care to most everyone. Add some restraints on the insurance companies, and bam, we don't need some ****ing french socialist system that ****s all but the lower class. This would ease up the prices of the private system and make options available to those who cannot afford it currently.

It also allows those who want to pay more to be treated with greater celerity.

This is a system of capitalism. This is a system of personal responsibility. This is a system that PROVIDED INCENTIVES to pharmaceuticals to develop new drugs and for students to enter a track towards medical services. This a system that provides some of the brightest minds and some of the best doctors in the world.

Nationalize health care, and these incentives are gone. We are forced into buying insurance that some of us don't want. Cutting edge drugs will no longer be developed because no company will see reason to pound money into developing them without hope of any fiscal return. And the doctors in this country will become run of the mill and no longer the best in their fields.

(edit--I have not proofread this so excuse any mistakes with grammar or incorrect words)

[freeringo]

Capitalism is alive and healthy, and the best system for this country.

At my age with no family, I'd prefer to save the money on health insurance and go uninsured. I'm a healthy enough individual for this to be an economically sound decision and the last thing i want is for the government to make the decision for me. Its not their place and I don't want to be forced into health insurance be it with required health care like is in place in Massachusetts or with universal health care where it comes out of my taxes.

Systems like the system in Massachusetts should be in place but WITHOUT a mandate requiring the insurance. Insurance should be allowed to be sold across state lines, and like the system in MA, there should be places that show you every option available. (think travelocity for health insurance) I would support this. It will get affordable health care to most everyone. Add some restraints on the insurance companies, and bam, we don't need some ****ing french socialist system that ****s all but the lower class. This would ease up the prices of the private system and make options available to those who cannot afford it currently.

It also allows those who want to pay more to be treated with greater celerity.

This is a system of capitalism. This is a system of personal responsibility. This is a system that PROVIDED INCENTIVES to pharmaceuticals to develop new drugs and for students to enter a track towards medical services. This a system that provides some of the brightest minds and some of the best doctors in the world.

Nationalize health care, and these incentives are gone. We are forced into buying insurance that some of us don't want. Cutting edge drugs will no longer be developed because no company will see reason to pound money into developing them without hope of any fiscal return. And the doctors in this country will become run of the mill and no longer the best in their fields.

(edit--I have not proofread this so excuse any mistakes with grammar or incorrect words)

Capitalism is greedy, corrupt and evil.
The capitalists have raped our country and left us with no manufacturing jobs like we use to have. The old America is gone.
The new America is all about working less hours, more entitlements and communing with family and community. We cannot go back to the dog eat dog world we just went through.
Think about it a minute.
50% of homeowners are under water
Min. wage and P/T work has taken over most industries now.
You tell me how the vast work force is going to feed the capitalist machine anymore.

[freeringo]

Raise Min. wage to $13 an hour and we all could afford our own way.

That's not going to happen.

The biggest Union in California is the prison guard union.

I will never be a prison guard. Wall marts hiring.

[PANAMHIEST]

This is a little tidbit of information that is going on about the health care debate and how some americans truly are not interested the well-being of each other. I personally, cant sit aside and watch someone die, such as a young child with fixable heart problems, and be happy i save $45 bucks a week outta my paycheck. That is just inhumane, and selfish, and people who are this way, is the reason why society in america today is so ***d up.

So i ask who cares? I do, and im willing to shell out 45 bucks a week or so to help my fellow neighbors and americans have a better tommorrow and better health. Im not selfish,and its not about taxes or money to me, it about what we should do as people as to help one another.

here is the link i was referring to:
Britons defend their health care from US criticism - Yahoo! News

[TerpZone]

This is a little tidbit of information that is going on about the health care debate and how some americans truly are not interested the well-being of each other. I personally, cant sit aside and watch someone die, such as a young child with fixable heart problems, and be happy i save $45 bucks a week outta my paycheck. That is just inhumane, and selfish, and people who are this way, is the reason why society in america today is so ***d up.

So i ask who cares? I do, and im willing to shell out 45 bucks a week or so to help my fellow neighbors and americans have a better tommorrow and better health. Im not selfish,and its not about taxes or money to me, it about what we should do as people as to help one another.

It is very ignorant of you to think that not supporting health care is selfish and mean spirited towards the needy.

here is the link i was referring to:
Britons defend their health care from US criticism - Yahoo! News

One can donate their time and money to hundreds of charities. I don't want the government as an intermediary between me and the needy, and I don't want to pay as much as the government would have me pay for healthcare.

Capitalism is greedy, corrupt and evil.
The capitalists have raped our country and left us with no manufacturing jobs like we use to have. The old America is gone.
The new America is all about working less hours, more entitlements and communing with family and community. We cannot go back to the dog eat dog world we just went through.
Think about it a minute.
50% of homeowners are under water
Min. wage and P/T work has taken over most industries now.
You tell me how the vast work force is going to feed the capitalist machine anymore.

Capitalism is great and has provided every great thing this country has ever accomplished.

I think you're confusing capitalism and laissez-faire

[TerpZone]

This is a little tidbit of information that is going on about the health care debate and how some americans truly are not interested the well-being of each other. I personally, cant sit aside and watch someone die, such as a young child with fixable heart problems, and be happy i save $45 bucks a week outta my paycheck. That is just inhumane, and selfish, and people who are this way, is the reason why society in america today is so ***d up.

So i ask who cares? I do, and im willing to shell out 45 bucks a week or so to help my fellow neighbors and americans have a better tommorrow and better health. Im not selfish,and its not about taxes or money to me, it about what we should do as people as to help one another.

here is the link i was referring to:
Britons defend their health care from US criticism - Yahoo! News

Also, it is very ignorant of you to think that opposing national health care is a result of selfishness and indifference towards the poor and needy.

[PANAMHIEST]

Also, it is very ignorant of you to think that opposing national health care is a result of selfishness and indifference towards the poor and needy.

why else would someone not want something that is gonna help out others in need of this reform then? It cant be from an economic stand point either, becuase instead of having to pay sometimes outrages fees and co- payments, and whatever else a insurance company can come up with, you pay for a very strick, governed price for health care. Itll help the doctors, because they will be getting patients coming in for services that normally wouldnt be able to afford those services, thus resulting in more money for the hospitals, the staff, and the medical industry as a whole.

[TerpZone]

why else would someone not want something that is gonna help out others in need of this reform then? It cant be from an economic stand point either, becuase instead of having to pay sometimes outrages fees and co- payments, and whatever else a insurance company can come up with, you pay for a very strick, governed price for health care. Itll help the doctors, because they will be getting patients coming in for services that normally wouldnt be able to afford those services, thus resulting in more money for the hospitals, the staff, and the medical industry as a whole.

Because of the economics of it and the loss of incentives. I don't mean to insult you, but you're wrong about the economics of national health care.

[freeringo]

Even homeless shelters are run by big business.
They get more than twice as much money per person from the state
than it would cost the state to just pay for their food and rent.
They make money off the homeless.
Get the greedy corporations out of the equation and we would have enough money to get all 60 million Americans living in poverty back on their feet. That's 1 in 5 Amricans living in poverty.

You were saying?

[TerpZone]

Even homeless shelters are run by big business.
They get more than twice as much money per person from the state
than it would cost the state to just pay for their food and rent.
They make money off the homeless.
Get the greedy corporations out of the equation and we would have enough money to get all 60 million Americans living in poverty back on their feet. That's 1 in 5 Amricans living in poverty.

You were saying?

I don't even know what you're saying or where these numbers are coming from.

But corporations are, as much as you'd like to argue it, not evil. Greedy, maybe, but evil certainly not.

[PANAMHIEST]

In the UK, we pay a set amount out of our wages each week/month.

On wages of £300 ($500 a week), i usually pay $45 or so in National Insurance.

This gives me free healthcare at all time, and hugely discounted dental

That is a unbelievably great deal, and I cant wait for the health care system to be put in place here. If there are some people out there who dont want it, and want to continue to pursue some sort of private health insurance, then they should be able to opt out it it at thier own risk, but after the reform takes place i wouldnt trust my health care to an already corrupt private health care system. I dont see many private health care insurance companies staying in business for long either.

[TerpZone]

If there are some people out there who dont want it, and want to continue to pursue some sort of private health insurance

If this is what you believe, then you're misinformed.

Have fun waiting 3x as long for an inferior doctor.

[eejit101]

Oh yeah, here ive had to wait a few hours, or whatever.

On average with a broken bone im in and sorted and out within 3 hours.


Also - we do have to pay tax on our earnings btw on top.

So in total if i earn 500, say i pay $50 in NI, and another $45ish in tax.

[BnLM5]

In the UK, we pay a set amount out of our wages each week/month.

On wages of £300 ($500 a week), i usually pay $45 or so in National Insurance.

This gives me free healthcare at all time, and hugely discounted dental

This all sounds wonderful but you pay weekly and religiously for this health care yet you wait, how long for dental care when you are in pain?

It would be great if every American had free health care. By doing this but then the next thing you know they have you in jail because you can't afford health care, Just like car insurance. The cost are unGodly amounts.

Nonetheless right now at this time there are Sooooooo many American people who are unemployed the numbers are in the millions. (Employment Situation Summary) What about health care for them or their children?

This is way too much thought for me right now..... Gawd I hate politics!

[TerpZone]

This all sounds wonderful but you pay weekly and religiously for this health care yet you wait, how long for dental care when you are in pain?

It would be great if every American had free health care. By doing this but then the next thing you know they have you in jail because you can't afford health care, Just like car insurance. The cost are unGodly amounts.

Nonetheless right now at this time there are Sooooooo many American people who are unemployed the numbers are in the millions. (Employment Situation Summary) What about health care for them or their children?

This is way too much thought for me right now..... Gawd I hate politics!

To be fair, national health care CAN work in smaller countries, and it does. It just won't work here.

[freeringo]

I am now a leftist. how funny. I didn't even vote.
But I trust the ones we did vote for to make the decisions.
I didn't vote because I live in a County of 75% Republicans and in a state of 75% Democrats. The last time I voted was as an independent.

I choose to except life as it comes and not make waves.
I am the perfect American. Yes sir. I will send my children to fight in our wars. I will not protest. This new world was meant to be, we have been indoctrinated for decades to be except this.

We will have chips in our arms and you can't stop it.

[TerpZone]

I am now a leftist. how funny. I didn't even vote.
But I trust the ones we did vote for to make the decisions.
I didn't vote because I live in a County of 75% Republicans and in a state of 75% Democrats. The last time I voted was as an independent.

I choose to except life as it comes and not make waves.
I am the perfect American. Yes sir. I will send my children to fight in our wars. I will not protest. This new world was meant to be, we have been indoctrinated for decades to be except this.

We will have chips in our arms and you can't stop it.

I have a brother preparing for his second tour. I respect him and all the people in the military. But I still don't support this war.

I agree with no voting though. I refuse to vote in anything but local elections as long as the outdated electoral college is in place.

Your main problem is that you trust the men in office to make the right decisions. It's your duty as an American to NOT give them free reign with their power and to speak up when they do something objectionable.

This new world is meant to be? What does that even mean? By who? God? Ronald McDonald? Michael Vick? The most American thing an American can do is question their government.

[BnLM5]

"We the people of the United States of America in order to form a more perfect union....." I tend to agree it is our duty as Americans to pay attention and be aware of what is going on within our government. If this were not so it would be entirely corrupt by the simple ways of nature. Obviously some people are more passionate for one thing in life and others are more focused on something entirely different and always at the same time. We all have our own set of priorities in life every single day and they are always different list. Because "you are you and I am me". We are all at different places in life. People have different values, morals, ideas, and opinions and that is okay. Just because we disagree on this or that does not mean you are wrong or that I am wrong it just means that we disagree. Just because one person does things differently and depends on faith and trust in a given situation does not make him a leftist nor does the fact that the other may go on intuition/gut feeling and desire to be a part of keeping things orderly and in check mean that person is too active in politics. I believe that change can be a good thing in some situations and a not so good thing in another. But the fact remains that we will face change always nothing stays the same not even the weather. If we all were pure at heart, and we are not, it would be a perfect world but it is not. And I am sure the worst of this is yet to come.

I don't remember where I read this but I love it so I will share as I believe it is a good time...

Look at snowflakes each one uniquely shaped and beautiful, very light and would melt away easily as it lands alone.... But look what snowflakes can do when they stick together.... They can move the earth and crush anything that gets in its way.

[TerpZone]

Look at snowflakes each one uniquely shaped and beautiful, very light and would melt away easily as it lands alone.... But look what snowflakes can do when they stick together.... They can move the earth and crush anything that gets in its way.

Not a firepit.