The Weekly Debate - Religeon

[taylovesthebeatles]

Ummm eejit wow you just opened a HUGE can of Worms with this thread. It's okay though, because I am on a strict Diet of them...
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(I'm a Lutheran)

Okay sorry to any of you who didn't find that funny. Anyways, yes, I too am a Christian and I agree with BnL that faith is the existence of things not seen. Faith is the most important part of any religion. However, I understand what eejit's trying to say when he say he wants proof. That's why faith is so difficult to have, and even the strongest Christians, myself included, have times where they doubt or even have a lack of faith. It's not a foolproof system by any means.

Having said that, as a Lutheran, I believe that God is the one who redeems. That is not to say that God only saves those he desires to, because God wants all his children to receive salvation. My point is that there is nothing we humans can do to receive that, it is a gift. Additionally, especially for the Christian, a lack of faith is not a weakness but rather a strength, as it allows God to work in our lives and therefore strengthen our faith. God know I'm going through an extreme test of faith in my own life right now.

To address GloBug's point, yes suffering is difficult to equate with the belief in the existence of a benevolent God. And I do not, nor I hope any Christian believe that God is the cause of suffering in people's lives. Having said that, what would be the point of faith without suffering, without doubts? There would be no need for the grace of God, because there would be no sin or suffering. Any rational person, believing or not, can see that there is suffering in the world, whether they personally equate any of it with sin or not.

I guess to sum it all up for eejit, having faith will allow us to see the proof. Because it's out there. But I will agree that faith is not something easily obtained or sustainable. But it's possible. And that's what I believe God's role in our lives is.

(Sorry if this made absolutely no sense, I'm up at four in the morning and can't sleep. I can try to clarify my position later when I'm more alert.)

[67christine]

I am not a believer in god at all. If there was one then why all the wars, why are kids starving etc etc. I do believe in Karma. If you do good, good things will happen to you.

If anyone has problems with this debate then easy solution, do not read it.

[freeringo]

I went to Catholic school for 7 years. I sang in the chior and was an alter boy, I even hit nuns with fruit. All that is in the past. I have had 2 periods of my life where I was able to get very close to my inner being. I came to the conclusion that we are all highly intelligent beings. The energy that each of us puts out connects with others energys and with enough connections, a strong enough collective consciousness can change the way all of us think and perceive things.
With that said: The Bible has been censored, editted, changed and altered
through times of witches, dragons, oppression, slavery, rulers, wars, plagues.
Can we highly intelligent and greatly evolved humans put all our faith in
a book that has changed dozens of times to satify the powerful who had control of the book at the time.
Open your minds everyone! Religion will be just a story in the great journey
we humans are on. Have faith in yourself and each other.
If we all held hands we would be in heaven.

[freeringo]

Don't wait to die.
MAKE HEAVEN ON EARTH

[kingsnthahole]

being very religious growing up, i was hand fend my share of religion every day at school. I took it with a grain of salt and did my time. I agree that there is a higher power, but for me...some of the worst people i knew growing up were so called "religious people". I have read some of the bible passages as directed by my teachers. One of the biggest debates i had was EVOLUTION. You see, i'm a scientist, thats my religion. I believe in science. I find that organized religion is too much for me, too many rule, too many mindless time consuming things to worship. My summer reading list, aside from my job requirements of getting a new certification as a personal trainer, will be the bible, i have been putting it off for too long. My goal is to read deeper into the passages and find myself a meaning in it. I do not wish to "restore" my faith, i just dont believe in alot of the public shows of faith. I live my life not through the ways described to me in the bible, but through what i think is moral and i try to be a GOOD person and help people out, and do it with a smile.

The reason i stopped believing/practicing is because of a friend who said to me...
"i can't believe in something thats not proven, all we have to believe in this stuff is 4 guys who wrote a story on a man(the new testament), and some old scholarly scrolls."

i do believe that jesus was alive and he was crucified, and he was a GREAT human being. But i question the fact that he really proclaimed himself as the son of god, or if he was made that way, a Martyr for the catholic faith, by the writers of the new testament.

[knowledge]

I believe in today and the here and now. It matters not what happened yesterday. Live life to its' fullest. You may have regrets but they will be fleeting. Always forgive and forget.....but keep your bucket list!

[eejit101]

I think jesus was alive. But he was more ordinary, and possibly houdini-esqe.


So far this has gone surprisingly well.

I agree wih christine tho, dont read or respond if you feel stragnely about this,

[terbo71]

I grew up with religion, and still have it pushed on me regularly. I have also had some things happen to me that make me want to believe, hope for something more or something greater, but I have also had some very bad things happen in my life that tell me... No way! I too have to agree with Christine, if there is something greater, then why the suffering of children. No matter how bad I may sometimes find myself wanting to believe, I just can't. I am however, a strong believer in karma. I guess you could say I have faith in it.

[kingsnthahole]

on the topic of why children die, and people starving...there is only one answer,
Because the good chuck giveth and the good chuck taketh away.

[GloBug]

on the topic of why children die, and people starving...there is only one answer,
Because the good chuck giveth and the good chuck taketh away.

yeah well y thousands and thousands of people die over religion. i dont understand it. kinda sick if u think about it. people follow someone to there death and they have never met him. like i said religion kills more people in the world then all the diseases. i understand people need to believe in something but how about believing in yourself. alot easier.

[eejit101]

Was waiting for someone to post that.

Throught history religion has killed BILLIONS of people. Only a worldwide extinction can catch that now.

That being said, if they are following their faith till the end, whose to say they arent rewarded?

[GloBug]

Was waiting for someone to post that.

Throught history religion has killed BILLIONS of people. Only a worldwide extinction can catch that now.

That being said, if they are following their faith till the end, whose to say they arent rewarded?

i said it in my 1st post on this thread.

[PANAMHIEST]

By faith we understand the word and work of God—Faith of the ancients was centered in Christ—By faith men subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, and worked miracles.

This is a quote from hebrews chapter 11 verse 1

Now I am a firm believer in god and jesus chritst and that he died on the cross for our sins. I have faith in my life. If someone decides not to believe and have faith, and it comes down to judgement day, as in the book of revelations, then what? You have a free will to chose what you have faith in, but free will is what cast adam and eve from the gardens eden no?Decide for yourselfs if you want to come into glory, or if you want to face the fiery wraths of hell. It is better to belief in something than nothing at all isnt it?

If anything have faith in something my friends, because just as the wise verse above states, by faith men have subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness and worked miracles!