Wimps drawing out of position

[kingsnthahole]

listen guys/gals, the heading of the post is WIMPS, i like to follow the rule from rounders that if you cant pick out the fishes at the table within the first like 15-20 mins, you are the fish...granted, i agree with you if flop the nuts, yes it works well, but in ONLINE poker how often do you flop the nuts? the only thing as far as tells we get, is when people flip over hands, once you see a few hands and how the person plays when theyre in a hand, i STRONGLY feel that you can put them on a pretty tight range...

with that said, the flush draw was very obvious to me...the person was a nit, and a fish...the straight draw, the reason i said if any 8,3,5, or 6 comes im folding, im giving him credit for possibly a gutshot as well as 5,6...but the way the hand played out, and the caliber player he was told me what he had on the river by the way he bet...i too value myslef on my reading abilities, and i by no means go after good players in a hand like this, as they are MUCH MUCH harder to read.

one last thing...you actually min bet with KJ(top pair, K's)???
im sorry man but thats a terrible play, with a hand like KJ, i like to bet 2/3-3/4 to see where im at in the hand...i've seen many a donk limp with AK...and i myself only limp with KQ, with multiple players who limp in front of me.

[eejit101]

one last thing...you actually min bet with KJ(top pair, K's)???
im sorry man but thats a terrible play, with a hand like KJ, i like to bet 2/3-3/4 to see where im at in the hand...i've seen many a donk limp with AK...and i myself only limp with KQ, with multiple players who limp in front of me.

What? Where did i say that?????

[DINGO8MYBABY]

I'm just tired of people drawing without pot odds with a hand like K-xs or Q-xs or even J-xs which they never should have played in the first place (expecially limping in from early position Shortstacked), lucking out, and then thinking they know a damn thing. I want to bite these luckboxes, throw them in kiddie pools and shock them with cattle prods. Carbon Poker is chock full of them, and no they don't all come from Romania (though that doesn't seem to hurt).

[kingsnthahole]

i agree with you 100% dingo, however, i have found that if you keep the pots small, and give a little here and there...it sets up for you to get paid off on your big hands on Carbon...kinda like baiting a little baby with candy leading into a swimming pool, and then splash, theyre drowning...i honestly like sitting at a table knowing that i'm probably the best player there or the second best, its a psychological edge, and its a strategic edge...

for example, two days ago i 3.5bet to an unopened pot with 4c6c...and i got one caller in the BB, flop comes 3 clubs J 3 5, sweet, i flopped the flush w/ the belly to the straight flush...i bet the pot to make it look like i didn't want someone drawing to the flush...guy snap calls out of position, based on what i saw he probably had the A or K of clubs with another pair or maybe a hand like Kq offsuit with one club...anyways, turn brings a 5 of hearts, ok he could have slow played a set here but i didnt think he would have given the flop of 3 clubs, he prob would have check raised me on the flop, or bet big right off the bat...so i overbet the pot and shoved all in, HE SNAP CALLS with Ac Jd...all of his chips on a ace high flush draw with only 5 clubs that help bc of my straight flush draw, one of 2 remaining jacks, or 2 remaining 5's gives him the full house

the odds, on the flop, i'm 77% favorite to win....
on the turn im a 79.55% favorite...

and ofcourse the river is the 8 of clubs...giving him the ace high flush....im sorry but im folding that hand with just an ace high flush draw and a backdoor draw to the boat...but i would take that call all day because 8 out of ten time by the turn you know your getting doubled up if he calls...oh well, i'm still alive, i lost about 8 bucks on that pot...just another example of a bad call based on pot odds, the only way i call there is if i already have the flush or obviously if i flopped a set and turned a boat...ONLY WAY I CALL there for my whole stack...granted i didn't play the hand traditionally and kept it small, but i flopped a flush and i wanted to get paid off by a donkey...

[thenutzaa1]

i agree with you 100% dingo, however, i have found that if you keep the pots small, and give a little here and there...it sets up for you to get paid off on your big hands on Carbon...kinda like baiting a little baby with candy leading into a swimming pool, and then splash, theyre drowning...i honestly like sitting at a table knowing that i'm probably the best player there or the second best, its a psychological edge, and its a strategic edge...

for example, two days ago i 3.5bet to an unopened pot with 4c6c...and i got one caller in the BB, flop comes 3 clubs J 3 5, sweet, i flopped the flush w/ the belly to the straight flush...i bet the pot to make it look like i didn't want someone drawing to the flush...guy snap calls out of position, based on what i saw he probably had the A or K of clubs with another pair or maybe a hand like Kq offsuit with one club...anyways, turn brings a 5 of hearts, ok he could have slow played a set here but i didnt think he would have given the flop of 3 clubs, he prob would have check raised me on the flop, or bet big right off the bat...so i overbet the pot and shoved all in, HE SNAP CALLS with Ac Jd...all of his chips on a ace high flush draw with only 5 clubs that help bc of my straight flush draw, one of 2 remaining jacks, or 2 remaining 5's gives him the full house

the odds, on the flop, i'm 77% favorite to win....
on the turn im a 79.55% favorite...

and ofcourse the river is the 8 of clubs...giving him the ace high flush....im sorry but im folding that hand with just an ace high flush draw and a backdoor draw to the boat...but i would take that call all day because 8 out of ten time by the turn you know your getting doubled up if he calls...oh well, i'm still alive, i lost about 8 bucks on that pot...just another example of a bad call based on pot odds, the only way i call there is if i already have the flush or obviously if i flopped a set and turned a boat...ONLY WAY I CALL there for my whole stack...granted i didn't play the hand traditionally and kept it small, but i flopped a flush and i wanted to get paid off by a donkey...

i agree with both of you.............

I cahsed out 950 worth of chips to NDN and got 5 bucks to my carbon account....i played soo drunk one night that i tripled it to 15 bucks because i didnt care about the 5 bucks.

anyways i sat down at a heads up table with my 15 and this guy had $25 bucks.

he chased me down when i had top set with a j5 flush draw. and he hit it on the river and then pushed all in. i laughed at him and folded and showed it when i had half my stack invested.... well he said thank you to me.......


20 min later i lefted with all of his money he had on the table and he bought back in for 50 bucks.....i was laughing and said thank you and sat out.

but a lot of people do chase that flush on carbon.....i deff. agree with that.

[eejit101]

hey, kings, hang on....

What blinds are you playing at here, and whats the effective stacks??

Firstly - Raising 46suited is generally insane, yes by all means in tournaments, thats different, but in a cash game id strenuously suggest not raising that hand. Cant believe im the first person to say that but ok...


Anyways, You flop the flush. The flush you have is not the nut flush, or anywhere near it. The villain in this hand flops top pair top kicker, and the NUT flush draw. That part is key.


As of now, he has 9 outs for the flush, 3 outs for 2 pair, and 2 outs for trips.

Now, as im a genius, if i left it at that youd come back and say "but i had 2 of his club outs so he only had 7 outs, and then i have 2 of his outs as my straight flush outs". And im right!!!

HOWEVER, the villain here does not know your hand. You have have KcKh. QQ. A set. Two pair. To be honest 2 clubs is unlikely for you to be holding. Only KQc, and possibly K10/Q10.


The reason for this is the fact that you (this is just an opinion) raised preflop with a garbage hand, pays off in this case as you disguised what you hit.

And after that being said, you do realsie this is one of the ONLY flops that can possibly occur when you can stack this guy? The fact you didnt doesnt matter. Its the %'s you had when the money went in.

Im going to work this round here.... and see what you think.


(and im writing all this so bear with me if it sucks)

PokerStars Game ID123837192873187
NLHE Blinds $0.05/$0.10 6MAX Table name - blowitoutyourblowhole

Seat1: eejit101 $10
Seat2: kingsnthahole $10
Seat3: idontcare $6.55
Seat4: JessicaAlba $230
Seat5: Shootmenow $5.12
Seat6: iloveleet: $13.37
iloveleet posts the small blin $0.05
eejit101 posts the big blind $0.10
DEALT TO EEJIT101 - Ac Jd.
Kingsnthehole Raises to $0.35
Everyone else folds.
eejit101 calls $0.25
FLOP - Jc 3c 5c.
eejit101 checks
kingsnthehole bets $0.80
eejit101 calls $0.80 So far IMO im playing this fine
Turn - 5h
eejit101 checks
kingsnthehole bets $8.85 ????????????????????????? (im now assuming your not full stacked)
eejit101 calls $8.85
River 8c
eejit101 wins $19 with an Ace high flush
Kingsnthehole shows a Jack high flush.




Lets now analyze that. My read on you if i was the villain, is you have a Jack, Some kind of over pair possibly.

Summing up, i think you got paid off because the play was so...... bad? It appears you pushed all in with a hand when a possible scare card his the turn, and with draws out there, so you pushed to avoid making any decisions that are tricky. He might have a better flush, he might have quads, a boat, or trips. He might have what he has.


But think about this, if you bet $1.40 on the turn and he calls. Your still commiting him into a large pot if the turn is a safe card (as in Kh or somehting) and you can still extract value from the river, and what your NOT doing is getting all your chips in when your not even certain your ahead (im saying that as youve given us no info you had any possible reads, and calling the flop bet and preflop isnt ANY indication on what anyone holds). By pushing the turn your setting youself up to losing the biggest pot possible, and eliminating the chances of winning a larger one with alot less risk.

Wow that took ages

[vickid]

hey, kings, hang on....

What blinds are you playing at here, and whats the effective stacks??

Firstly - Raising 46suited is generally insane, yes by all means in tournaments, thats different, but in a cash game id strenuously suggest not raising that hand. Cant believe im the first person to say that but ok...


Anyways, You flop the flush. The flush you have is not the nut flush, or anywhere near it. The villain in this hand flops top pair top kicker, and the NUT flush draw. That part is key.


As of now, he has 9 outs for the flush, 3 outs for 2 pair, and 2 outs for trips.

Now, as im a genius, if i left it at that youd come back and say "but i had 2 of his club outs so he only had 7 outs, and then i have 2 of his outs as my straight flush outs". And im right!!!

HOWEVER, the villain here does not know your hand. You have have KcKh. QQ. A set. Two pair. To be honest 2 clubs is unlikely for you to be holding. Only KQc, and possibly K10/Q10.


The reason for this is the fact that you (this is just an opinion) raised preflop with a garbage hand, pays off in this case as you disguised what you hit.

And after that being said, you do realsie this is one of the ONLY flops that can possibly occur when you can stack this guy? The fact you didnt doesnt matter. Its the %'s you had when the money went in.

Im going to work this round here.... and see what you think.


(and im writing all this so bear with me if it sucks)

PokerStars Game ID123837192873187
NLHE Blinds $0.05/$0.10 6MAX Table name - blowitoutyourblowhole

Seat1: eejit101 $10
Seat2: kingsnthahole $10
Seat3: idontcare $6.55
Seat4: JessicaAlba $230
Seat5: Shootmenow $5.12
Seat6: iloveleet: $13.37
iloveleet posts the small blin $0.05
eejit101 posts the big blind $0.10
DEALT TO EEJIT101 - Ac Jd.
Kingsnthehole Raises to $0.35
Everyone else folds.
eejit101 calls $0.25
FLOP - Jc 3c 5c.
eejit101 checks
kingsnthehole bets $0.80
eejit101 calls $0.80 So far IMO im playing this fine
Turn - 5h
eejit101 checks
kingsnthehole bets $8.85 ????????????????????????? (im now assuming your not full stacked)
eejit101 calls $8.85
River 8c
eejit101 wins $19 with an Ace high flush
Kingsnthehole shows a Jack high flush.




Lets now analyze that. My read on you if i was the villain, is you have a Jack, Some kind of over pair possibly.

Summing up, i think you got paid off because the play was so...... bad? It appears you pushed all in with a hand when a possible scare card his the turn, and with draws out there, so you pushed to avoid making any decisions that are tricky. He might have a better flush, he might have quads, a boat, or trips. He might have what he has.


But think about this, if you bet $1.40 on the turn and he calls. Your still commiting him into a large pot if the turn is a safe card (as in Kh or somehting) and you can still extract value from the river, and what your NOT doing is getting all your chips in when your not even certain your ahead (im saying that as youve given us no info you had any possible reads, and calling the flop bet and preflop isnt ANY indication on what anyone holds). By pushing the turn your setting youself up to losing the biggest pot possible, and eliminating the chances of winning a larger one with alot less risk.

Wow that took ages

well that


is some sound advice

kings this was cash game eh wow

i agree with wat my eejit is saying here and sometimes i tend to listen to him when hes railing my table

but i would of half pot bet the turn and seen the river as he said he is commited to a larger pot and might have even folded who knows but the all in look like a scared move to steal the pot in my eyes and i would of called with top pair top kicker and nut flush the half pot bet would of made me think for a min but i would of called depending on how your table image was and other nonsence that happens but this is great advice and stuff i need to work on besides my spelling is not getting over commited into a pot when im unsure if i have the better hand something i am getting better at day in and day out but your advice eejit has been alot of help on the felts for me