Help me figure this one out.

[ffcowboy76]

Full Tilt Poker Game #11265255756: Table Fort Apache - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em
Seat 1: Spinaltap27 ($19.33)
Seat 2: 1CoreyHart1 ($30.42)
Seat 3: ffcowboy76 ($42.22)
Seat 4: qingxin ($4.55)
Seat 5: khivadiva ($6.25)
Seat 6: feifeifei ($7.55)
Seat 7: rekop87 ($25)
Seat 8: Dark Matter9 ($40.62)
Seat 9: avram22 ($38.60)
avram22 posts the small blind of $0.10
Spinaltap27 posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ffcowboy76 [Ac Ad]
1CoreyHart1 folds
1CoreyHart1 stands up
ffcowboy76 raises to $0.75
infantik adds $5
qingxin folds
khivadiva folds
feifeifei folds
rekop87 folds
Dark Matter9 calls $0.75
avram22 calls $0.65
Spinaltap27 calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [7s 5h Kh]
avram22 has 15 seconds left to act
avram22 bets $1.25
Spinaltap27 folds
ffcowboy76 raises to $4.50
Dark Matter9 folds
avram22 has 15 seconds left to act
avram22 calls $3.25
*** TURN *** [7s 5h Kh] [3c]
avram22 has 15 seconds left to act
avram22 checks
ffcowboy76 bets $9.75
avram22 has 15 seconds left to act
avram22 calls $9.75
*** RIVER *** [7s 5h Kh 3c] [2h]
avram22 has 15 seconds left to act
avram22 has requested TIME
avram22 bets $10
ffcowboy76 calls $10
*** SHOW DOWN ***
avram22 shows [7h 3h] a flush, King high
ffcowboy76 mucks
avram22 wins the pot ($48.93) with a flush, King high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $51.50 | Rake $2.57
Board: [7s 5h Kh 3c 2h]

I'm curious if anyone can explain the play the villain in this hand was trying to make. Why call 3x from an early position raise, with a call from late with 7/3 suited from the SB? After calling that, they lead out with middle pair and 4 to the flush. If you look at the possible hands I could of raised with from UTG+1 you had to see you were way behind. I'm curious what other people think of the villains play. I understand his call on the turn with 2 pair, but didn't see that coming. Please help me!!!!!

[bkniefel]

Tough beat, it's not like you were planning on getting away from the hand though. Sometimes it is right to lay the Aces down though.

Did you think about it, even consider the fact that you might need to?

Just because their aces, doesn't mean you have the best hand by the river. We all don't want to lay the hand down, but it is a must if you wish to become a pro.

[ffcowboy76]

The call on the river was for the information. I was pretty sure I was beat, but felt it worth the money to see what the hell he was acting with. The action didn't add up to me. His calls came pretty quick then he went to time and let it run most of the way down before he bet. I understand that folding A's needs to happen, which I've done many times, but I'm more curious as to the preflop call with 7/3 suited after the early raise and the late call. The action on the flop adds to the mystery of the play. He leads out and then calls a reraise from the original raiser with middle pair and the flush draw.

[bkniefel]

No offense please,

But, that is a retarded reason to call. Unless this guy is a regular on the site...

Obviously he is not given that he made such donk moves.

However, if you have a huge database that requires new inquiries, maybe that could generate your poker funds...

This is not out to get you, just comparing what I know.

[eejit101]

Ok, lets make some more people mad!!!

Preflop - Good raise, standard size. Problem is with cash games, as you have infinate BB's, its not as tight a range as a tourney, so i can open my range assessment to any pair, most aces, all suited aces, and 2 broadway cards etc.

The reason 73h calls formt he SB is pot odds and implied odds i guess. Nearly 4-1 on a preflop call, and yeah he is behind so he is searching for a good flop, or a bluffable one (if that exists). Or alternitavely he is stupid and likes suited cards, but as we dont have reads, we wont assume that.

Now for the flop. This is a GREAT flop for his hand, and a great one for yours if you dont know he has 73h. If you can pick flops for AA, most people pick K94 or similar, as alot of people have AK, KQ e.t.c

Problem we have now is the villain has a pair, and outs for trips, 2pr, straight, and flush.

IMO the villain played this badly. He could have stacked you here by re-reraising the flop. Your reraise signifies AK or better. IMO id be putting you on AK, AA, or very unlikely a set, as a set here calls on the flop.

The thing is, playing the villains hand is tricky here. As with this hand EVERY out he has is only a possible one, as you "could" have a set already, or AQh or similar for the larger flush draw with overcards. So now we can narrow your range with the fact you raised the flop. I dont believe KK raises. Unlikely 55 also. This is where i put you on AK/AA or maybe a weirdly played QQ that wants to win the pot now. IF i had the 73h, you have 2 options. Call and hope to hit something, or raise and hope you are BAD enough to fold AK or AA.

Im going off on a tangent here as im tired i think. This is a bad hand analysis!!

The way you played it as played is fine for the most part. On the turn when he hit his 2 pair, and checks. I believe he is hoping to check raise, but when i tcame to raising, he thought "hmm... im clearly ahead now. Not many river cards scare me, only the 5/Q/K/A. Anything else is great. So ill call and hope to stack on the river"

Im assuming that as that would have been my thought the moment the 3 came down. Check/call, hope for a good river, and then make the play.

As for the river play, you are getting good odds to call. IMO though the $10 bet looks like a blatent flush hit. Or the obvious alternative, the flush bluff.

As your your comment on calling the river for info, im not sure. Id do it if i was deep enough and knew i would play the guy again several times in order to utilize the info i gain from calling to win my money back + more. In a tourney game, id call the river if it was 1/4 of my stack or less. ID be 20% confident i was ahead, and 80% sure i was beat. But with 4-1 odds on the call, the pot odds here coincide with my %'s on AA being ahead.

As for reading him on the hand....

Obviously 73h is impossible to read. Preflop he can have anything.

As played, the order id read his hands in, are as follows.

Ax hearts. (A3 id assume more often than not cos of his turn play)
55.
K5/K7/K3.
33.
Junk.


Junk is unlikely as he is playing this looking like he has every intention of winning the hand on the river.

As for me calling the river.... i dunno. I dont often fold aces, but this river and this play by him makes it hard to find reasons to call.


If the river was say a spade that didnt pair the board.......... i want to know what your plan is there? Say the river was - 9c.

You still check/calling? If he checks are you value betting? If he checks the river are you assuming your good, or maybe attempting to bluff believe you may be beat?? (unlikely, but it needs answering).


Summary - you played it fine till the river IMO. He played it fine also. This is one of those "nothing you can do hands".

The only reason im not calling him an idiot more, is that its a cash game, his implied odds are alot bigger than his pot odds preflop, and with the BBs option of calling, 4-1 preflop with 73h isnt that bad a play. I may call in that spot with no reads, unless i had a TAG image of you, then id immediately pitch it.


Thoughts?

[ffcowboy76]

I agree my call was suspicious, but I was planning on playing many more hands at that table with that player. I wasn't 100% sure I was beat, had him on either AK or 2 hearts, so calling the $10 had other reasons other than the information. I'm still confused as to why he would call with 7/3 when I only raised with good hands in the proper position. Never raised with something odd in early position, only AK, AQ or better. I'm by no means a loose player, but I'm also not a fan of limping to open a pot. I would rather raise with a medium starting hand from the correct position than limp to open the pot. This reduces the chance of a trash hand limping behind me and hitting a crazy flop that can hurt me. I don't know if this contributed to his calling with 7/3 suited.

[$o$o$ucce$$ful]

Ehh this is another hard hand to dive into because of how standard everything that you did was.
Pre-flop- Standard 3xBB raise.
Post-flop-Standard raise with an overpair.
Turn and River again all standard with the heart coming just a flat call.
Now lets look at it from villians perspective.
As this is a cash game you knwo that villian has a wider range of hands/ especially since he had a suited gap gap connector. Then he catches mid pair with the flush draw so everything HE does after the flop I think is standard. Its his preflop action I have no justification for.....
I have no idea, how i can justify It.
Sorry once again I have NOOOOOOOOOOOO idea.

[bkniefel]

Hmmmmmm yea, I'm not sure but I still think that what I'm saying is completely valid. This is supposed to me a non-emotional game.

Especially when you are not broke!!!! LOL