A2-a9

[KaciBlakely]

Didn't see there was a forum for hand analysis.

Heres the question

I find people will always play A2, A3, A9 etc. On TV you always see pros raising with any ace. Why do people value aces so much? Typically the answer is that if an ace comes on the flop, you have top pair?

But is top pair really that great? Ace rag isn't that great of a hand to raise with, and thus usually there are a lot of people in the pot, so top pair usually doesn't win a hand, unless you hit more than top pair.

Also, chances are, everyone will play an ace anyway, so someone is likely to have a better kicker. On the other hand, what are the chances of an ace coming on the flop with a bunch of people in the hand, because chances are at least one other person has an ace and then the chance of an ace coming on the flop is around 11%.

It seems everyone puts such high value on an ace, when really, I'd rather have two face cards over A2-A9.

Your thoughts?

[$o$o$ucce$$ful]

This is a great question Kaci and I hopefully will be able to give you a great answer.
Not all pros willr aise any ace, in fact many pros tend to stay away from Ace-Rag(any ace below AT). Depending on the position, chip stack, blinds, and who is in the BB there perception will change.
For instance I was playing in a 300+15 buy in tournament at Turning Stone casino in New York. I had played with the gentleman sitting in the BB all tournament we were always at the same table. It was his BB and Blinds were increasing at a fairly decent rate (I had 38,000 and blinds were only at 250/500).
Anyways the gentleman was an extremely extremely tight player. He has only been in 2 all in pots and Had AA and AK in both of them. So in this position I want to RAISE with any ace. No matter if it is Ace Rag or a very strong Ace because I know he is not going to call unless he has a decent hand.
And decent hand for me( a loose aggressive player) is different then a decent hand for him(a tight player).
So in my head I am thinking if I make it 4xBB then he will not call unless he has
A.) A Bigger Ace then me
B.) A middle Pocket pair
C.) Maybe MAYBE a hand like QJ KQ or KJ.
However if he raises I put him one one of the following
A) A monster pair (AA,KK,QQ)
B)A monster ace(AK,AQ)
So the point is if you are going to raise with weak aces you ahve to be able to dump them if you are reraised. Because 99% of the time you are beat, Or hammered in a pot.
So to your question of whether or not Ace rag is good........Depends. I know that is not the answer your looking for but I hope to have been of some help.

[ffcowboy76]

I've noticed the same thing mentioned by Kaci. There are many different problems with raising with A rag, but also some benefits. The question of if this is a correct play has many different answers. $o$o$uccessful answered with one of them. I will provide another. I tend to chuck A rag into the muck. With that said, I will also raise with them occasionally to give a looser table image than what I really am. By doing this, if it goes to showdown, people are more apt to call with a weak A when you have AK, AQ and hit the flop.

If you do feel like playing A rag, the only way to consider your hand good is to hit 2 pair or better. If you raise with A rag, depending on position, only a better A or KQ and occasionally KJ should be calling. I'm a big believer in mucking any A lower than AT, but that is based on how I play.

[eejit101]

If your referring to TV shows, like HSP (high stakes poker) or similar, they get paid to appear and play alot of hands. And as its a short handed cash game, A3 and A2 and A9 are playable hands.

In FullTilts poker after dark, its a 6max SnG, so again, ranges decrease, and Ax is again very playable.

Watch the WSOP, aside from the final table, you hardly see any A rags being played, as its a proper MTT style format

[KaciBlakely]

I appreciate all of your opinions. It was a food for thought question and I thought I would get different opinions on. My thought was I was going to along with success and I thought the same things as the below mentioned.

Thanks for everything and I will add more thoughtful discussion to this when I am not so tired.

[bkniefel]

Didn't see there was a forum for hand analysis.

Heres the question

I find people will always play A2, A3, A9 etc. On TV you always see pros raising with any ace. Why do people value aces so much? Typically the answer is that if an ace comes on the flop, you have top pair?

But is top pair really that great? Ace rag isn't that great of a hand to raise with, and thus usually there are a lot of people in the pot, so top pair usually doesn't win a hand, unless you hit more than top pair.

Also, chances are, everyone will play an ace anyway, so someone is likely to have a better kicker. On the other hand, what are the chances of an ace coming on the flop with a bunch of people in the hand, because chances are at least one other person has an ace and then the chance of an ace coming on the flop is around 11%.

It seems everyone puts such high value on an ace, when really, I'd rather have two face cards over A2-A9.

Your thoughts?

Very good point. I agree with you and I think it is the new game. I won't even play A7 online. This is because not only is the play compatible with the stakes in most cases, but the percentage of action pre-flop online compared to live is tremendous.

I see cards as they are in my position as best as I can.

When I get any wired pair, or even A's I still hesitate.

The action will tell you whether you are good or not. Aces are exception because regardless, you are favored to win the hand pre-flop. That's the hard part......

[$o$o$ucce$$ful]

I appreciate all of your opinions. It was a food for thought question and I thought I would get different opinions on. My thought was I was going to along with success and I thought the same things as the below mentioned.

Thanks for everything and I will add more thoughtful discussion to this when I am not so tired.

Id like to add on a little bit to my response by talking about calling an ALL IN with ace-rag.
This is very tough to talk about because once again it is situational but there are only three situations you have to choose from.
A)It is a short stack pushing.
If this is the case then it is all about the position in which they pushed, if they pushed in early position (UTG, UTG+1) They have a hand better then Ace Rag and that is a fact. However if they push from late position (Button-1,Button,SB,BB) This MIGHT be a steal play, and if they are shortstacked and you are getting the right odds. You should make the call. I always say if its for less then 20% of my stack and I have an ace and think im ahead then I wil call. Some people would disagree however, I think that would be the right play.
B) It is a middle stack, pushing.
This is typically not going to happen, unless a raise is infront of them. This is because average stacks, feel good about there position and dont wanna just push, fearing being eliminated before a shortstack, which would move them up the money ladder.
My philosophy is unless you have an ABSOLUTE read that you trust no matter what. This is a no call, at all, never situation.
Finally,
C) A big stack bull pushing.
This actually happens more often then you think, especially if the blinds are high enogh as to where just getting the blinds is very proportional to stack size. Just like a shortstack push I would only consider a call if it was a late position shove.

So in short I ONLY call all ins with ace rag when it is a late position shove and i feel I am getting BETTER then 2 to 1 on my money.
Thanks for reading.