Note Taking

[ffcowboy76]

This is something a player I was working with asked me to write about. Figured I would share it here as well.

When deciding on what online site to play on I base my decision on many different things. I look at how easy it is to deposit, how well the software runs, how many players are online, how well their support is, what kind of note taking system do they use, and many other options. I’m going to assume many of you stopped and wondered why I included anything about note taking in my list of requirements for a poker site. There are a few different reasons for including this, but those are my opinion so I won’t include them. There are a few things about note taking that I’m going to discuss though. There are thousands of reasons to take notes and only 2 not to. The thousands of reasons can be related to the money you can add to your bankroll from the notes you take. The two reasons not to take notes are laziness or lack of knowledge. Hopefully I will remove the lack of knowledge reason after you read this.

First off let’s talk about why to take notes. There are so many reasons that I can’t possibly list them all here, but I will touch on a few. Taking notes makes you pay attention to the action at the table and not the hundreds of other things you could watch while playing online poker. By watching those actions you can gain insight on what your opponents are trying to do, either successfully or unsuccessfully. By gaining this insight you can sometimes make calls or moves you wouldn’t make if you didn’t have that information. On top of the information gain, there is another strategic gain from taking notes. As you continue your career playing online poker you will see the same players over and over again. If you take notes on what players do at the table, you automatically have an idea of how they play from past experience. It’s not 100% fool proof, but you will have an idea of the cards they play from what position.

Now, what should you put in the notes. There are different ideas on this topic and all of them are correct. When I take notes I will use what I learn from watching the action and what is available from the hand histories tabs on most sites. Almost every site that allows you to play poker has some sort of hand history and most of them show you the mucked showdown cards, even if they were mucked on the table. With all of that information you can start to make some assumptions about the players at your table. I will post a hand and give you the notes I might take based on showdown information.
Here is the hand:
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ffcowboy76 [Kd Kh]
mpingel1981 folds
Ahighwin folds
ffcowboy76 raises to $2
Ransit folds
shaykee folds
mclovin2525 folds
fritz122 calls $1.75
TO_Lad folds
*** FLOP *** [9c As 5s]
fritz122 checks
ffcowboy76 bets $3
fritz122 calls $3
*** TURN *** [9c As 5s] [5h]
fritz122 has 15 seconds left to act
fritz122 checks
ffcowboy76 checks
*** RIVER *** [9c As 5s 5h] [4d]
fritz122 has 15 seconds left to act
fritz122 bets $4.50
ffcowboy76 calls $4.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
fritz122 shows [9s Ts] two pair, Nines and Fives
ffcowboy76 shows [Kd Kh] two pair, Kings and Fives
ffcowboy76 wins the pot ($18.55) with two pair, Kings and Fives

I didn’t pick up a huge win, but I gained some insight on the player who went against me. First off, he called 4x the bb from the SB with 9/10s. I would put that statement into the notes section for that player on the site. It tells me that he doesn’t always make plays based on proper position. You really don’t want to take a mid suited connector in early position, especially to a preflop raise. On the flop he check calls with middle pair for a ¾ pot bet from the raiser. Now, I could have been making a continuation bet, but either way he is drawing for 5 outs against what he thinks I might have. On the turn we both check, partially because I was concerned about the A and a check raise coming from him. I think, after looking at it, I might have been able to take down the hand with a bet on the turn. My lack of strength on the turn gave him the impression he might be ahead, therefore he made the correct play by betting. On a side note, I made a mistake by not raising on the river for value, but I’m pretty sure at the time I was concerned about the A and him having something weak like AT. Now, my notes for that hand would look something like this. “called 4x bb from SB with 9/T suited. Called ¾ pot on flop with mid pair, might of though cont bet. When thinks ahead, willing to bet into a raiser.” That note gives me a general run down of what happened and what he did. I will do this almost everytime there is a raise and it goes to a showdown. If nothing else I will note what they raised/called with based on position. Those notes will help you start to place you opponents on hands when you make a raise and they call.

Other things that can be included can be things about what happens if the player takes a bad beat. If they go off the deep end because someone called with an inferior hand and beat them, take a note. That can tell you how emotional the player is. An emotional player can be very difficult to play against because some of their action is based on how they feel at that moment. If they feel invincible because of a big win against someone, you can slow play monsters against them and take down pots. If they feel really insecure at the table, they might push overly hard with just top pair and an average kicker. Another thing to note is if action at the table doesn’t make sense. If some one raises big preflop and then check/calls to the river would be a good person to go back and make a note on. Look at the history if you don’t see their hand at showdown and compare it to the board. Did they make a passive play with a monster or did they overplay a mid pocket pair to a board of overs. Take notes because there is a good chance that they will do it again.

I hope this advice helps you gain additional knowledge on how to take notes. Using notes to your advantage can be the difference between have a good night and a great night.

[eejit101]

You realised the vilain here had a flush draw right too??

IMO he played this horribly. You played it fine (i can argue for betting the turn though)

[ffcowboy76]

Yes I did. Didn't see it when I wrote the piece. I probably picked a bad hand for the note taking example, but it was late and I was rushing a bit, when I finished it off. Hopefully people will use the general context to learn about how to take notes on players to be used in later play.

[eejit101]

You realised the vilain here had a flush draw right?? Means 5 outs become 14 outs. Meaning, your racing.

IMO he played this horribly. You played it fine (i can argue for betting the turn though)

If i was the villain in this hand, the simple move here is check/raise the flop, he got the check right, got you to bet with a strong but now weak hand (to see where you are obv), then he called. IF he raises, he either wins the pot now, or gets you to commit, increasing his implied odds of winning more fo your stack later on. Plus he also has a pair, so 10% of the time IMO he is ahead already. Turn comes, laying my way i fire big into this turn, you should fold anything that isnt 55/99/AA/A9/AK and maybe AQ here. Id imagine youd lay down KK to a turn bet if the flop action went as i proposed? (Or im also assuming you fold to his reraise on the flop)

Ok, enough on the hand... Tips!

Note taking is important, with 200,000 players on Stars for example at one time, you will come across alot of them repeatedly if you stay at similar levels, i take alot of notes in SnG's for example. Aazing how many similar people you find there.

Notes are mainly for Cash games though. If taking notes on somsone helps you win 1 extra hand out of 50 against them, and you do this for everyone, thats 9/50 more hands won because you write down significant information. Thats huge. if i won 9/50 hands at a cash table id be happy, if i was winnin 9/50 on top of what i was winning, id be ecstatic.

[knowledge]

My question is how do you have time to make these notes, esp. playing like at this time against 1 player. Also the probability that you will ever run into this player on the internet with this same situation makes it highly unlikely that these notes would ever help you again. Is the time involved really worth it if you play random games on a variety of sites? To me the time spent in typing in the note could be better spent in the actual thought process of the table history. I don't know if any of you other than cowboy and eejit play the same place alot, however it just doesn't make sense to me to post these written notes.

[eejit101]

Typing it takes 5 seconds if u type fast.

Plus you have to wait that ong till your next hand is dealt and/or it gets to you to act. If your multi tabling then obviously you can wait a bit while you write the note, but 5-10 seconds is very short amount of time, you wont time out anywhere.

And yeah its worth it. And i play everywhere!!! Also for the time your at the table on this one occasion your notes are handy, as if they are in some seriousy long session, your notes on them will win you lots of info

[ffcowboy76]

I play on about 3 different sites. I play on FTP the most and run into the same players over and over again. I started to notice this after I started taking notes on players. Not only do I see them in cash games, but also in tournaments. I've used notes multiple times to help me make either a call or a fold. The times I've called, I've come out ahead in the hand. Sometimes on the fold, I've was ahead, but I added to the notes. If you play the same limit for any period of time on any one site, you will start to run into players over and over again.

On the time aspect. I try to start taking the notes during the hand while watching. I will open the notes screen and start to type what amount they called and will type with "??" until I know. Then I go back and edit the notes to include the final information. I also use the hand history option, which gives a written history of the hand to make notes on hands. This allows me to fold a hand and make a note or two on a player. It's something you will get quick at with practice.

[knowledge]

Thanks for this insight. I used to play alot on stars and hardly ever ran into the same players. I, when I first started playing 3 years ago put a mark on everone I was at a table with. After about 3 months I quit doing it just to see if I ran into someone that I had played with before.just for fun. I think I saw one of my marks in the future. I only play at low limit sngs and cheap tourneys as my funds are limited, this may have something to do with that. Now I am playing mostly at PDC cause I like the site and alot of our games are there. I will try out what you 2 are helping me with and let you know how it works for me. Thanks for your quick response to my query.

[ffcowboy76]

Not a problem. When you first start, you will not see many, but as time goes by and the number of people with notes goes up, you will see more and more at your tables. I've been at tables where 3 of the players had notes on them from previous sessions.

[ScareCrowAKA]

Im kind of curious to what types of notes you guys write. Do you write down like... generalizations like "tight-aggresive" or "chases", write specific hand examples like "called all the way through after floping top pair aces with 4 kicker"... What to do actually write in your notes?

[$o$o$ucce$$ful]

Im kind of curious to what types of notes you guys write. Do you write down like... generalizations like "tight-aggresive" or "chases", write specific hand examples like "called all the way through after floping top pair aces with 4 kicker"... What to do actually write in your notes?

"Ok"
"Very Good"
"Donkey"
"Dumb-***"

The only 4 things i right in a note.

[ffcowboy76]

Im kind of curious to what types of notes you guys write. Do you write down like... generalizations like "tight-aggresive" or "chases", write specific hand examples like "called all the way through after floping top pair aces with 4 kicker"... What to do actually write in your notes?

I generally tend to stick with what happened in a hand. "Called 3x with AK from late, cont. bet with just overs and called 2x bet reraise. Checked down and lost to TT." If they bet the hand correctly for the flop I won't note that, but rather what they raised with. "Went 3x with AK from UTG+3" That way I know what they tend to raise with from what position. If they limp with a big hand that get's noted too. "Limped with AA from the button with 3 limpers prior." It's also up to you as to what you note. Depends on what information you want in the future.

[knowledge]

man I tried again to write notes but just did not have the time. I can remember the play of most all hands in 2 hours but for those of you that can do this noteing I guess this is just not enough. Now how about like tonite tourney. Did u need to or did you take notes on me? I think not. You regular players know how I play, or do you. Did you expect what happened tonite or did your notes not work. Was this a fluke. It's not the first time I won a tourney with you wether on NDPT or chip buy in tourney. Tell me about my play please. I am not being mean but am trying to improve my game. Eejit an cowboy have really helped in the past week and I appreciate the help. Let me know if I learned something, thanks