Hand for discussion

[eejit101]

Remebered i saved this from a while ago, forgot to post it.

No reads, as its rush, no notes, and im short as i chose to be!

Table Mercury - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 15:55:53 ET
Seat 1: 4yxonec ($67.80)
Seat 2: Journeyman54 ($69.20)
Seat 3: lakrmix ($50)
Seat 4: p4ddy ($47.75)
Seat 5: NeverWin3 ($63.80)
Seat 6: JohnnyStecch1no ($56.10)
Seat 7: JakDuAce ($18.50)
Seat 8: 1848fan ($124.45)
Seat 9: jujubee85 ($28.65)
1848fan posts the small blind of $0.25
jujubee85 posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jujubee85 [Ts Td]
4yxonec folds
Journeyman54 folds
lakrmix has 8 seconds left to act
lakrmix folds
p4ddy folds
NeverWin3 raises to $1.50
JohnnyStecch1no folds
JakDuAce folds
1848fan folds
jujubee85 calls $1
*** FLOP *** [2d 9d Th]
jujubee85 checks
NeverWin3 bets $3
jujubee85 raises to $7.15
NeverWin3 calls $4.15
*** TURN *** [2d 9d Th] [As]
jujubee85 bets $5
NeverWin3 calls $5
*** RIVER *** [2d 9d Th As] [5d]
jujubee85 checks
NeverWin3 bets $6
jujubee85 raises to $15, and is all in
NeverWin3 calls $9
***SHOWDOWN***

blah blah blah


Ill post my thoughts later, but I figured the turn is the biggest discussion point.

[PANAMHIEST]

Either you lost to aaces, won against 99, or possibly lost to a odd flush, but i doubt it, i think it was the aces. But hey what can you do when you hit the nut flop?

[TerpZone]

Uh...what? That hand played itself.

[klinkman]

I'd make a bigger check raise on the flop myself. Barreling the turn after check-raising the flop seems super standard, but I think I want to bet bigger there too. You're not giving him the right price to chase though, so maybe the size is fine. With no reads I'm tempted to block/fold on the river instead of check raising all in. I really feel like there are some flush draws in his range, Axdd seems really likely.

[ScareCrowAKA]

Qd Jd? If I think I can bet him off it after the turn I make a over the pot size bet. If I dont, I check call to see the river as cheap as possible... either way Im pretty much folding when the Diamond or King hits... If it turns out to be Aces, I just lose... If I Chose to play it like you I would have bet 10$ after the turn instead of 5... His value bet on the end pretty much gives the flush away.

[eejit101]

He snap called with 7d 4d

[ffcowboy76]

After looking over the hand I was leaning toward A's, but had a strange feeling about some form of a weak flush draw. Looking at the odds of the hand might lead to some insight about the call the other player made. He can open raise from late with a wide range of hands. That is a very standard play in rush cash game to open raise with any hand you want to play. The hero's action preflop can be three things, flat, 3 bet, or fold. T's are not that strong so on a readless game I think flatting is the best play but an argument can be made for 3 betting. I think it is really close between 3 betting and flatting and obviously folding is out. On the flop there is 3.25 in the pot before any rake is taken.

On the flop your opponent makes a larger than normal continuation bet after a check by the hero. You are looking to c-bet around 1/2 to 2/3 the pot. His bet puts $6.25 in the pot before any rake. The hero decides to establish some display of strength by check raising the opponent and seeing what he does. This is a perfectly normal and acceptable play, but the sizing is WAY small. You raise to $7.15 with puts $13.35 in the pot and making him call $4.15 to see the turn. He was getting a touch over 3 to 1 on his money. If he figures you for a non suited hand he knows that if his flush hits he stacks you hard. There for his call on the flop isn't that bad when you consider both the odds and the implied odds.

On the turn you and your opponent do not improve, but a semi scary card hit. Looking at the action I don't see AA as being in the hand, but do see AK-Ax suited being there as well as AKo and AQo. I don't expect to see K's or Q's at showdown as I would expect a 4 bet on the flop to protect against the flush draws. With that decided I think we need to bet about 2/3 the pot to almost pot. This will reduce his odds and make his call a mistake. After his flop call there was $17.50 in the pot before rake. By betting $5 he is getting over 4 to 1 to make the call on the turn. This is again justified by both the pot and implied odds offered by our hero.

When the third diamond comes on the river I think the ONLY action is to check/call. The general hand range we have him on is something suited or AK, AQ. The only two hands you beat are AK and AQ. I think if we are going to shove we do it first not via check raise. The ONLY hands that call you are hands that will beat you. You have established strength on multiple streets and then show weakness when the flush comes in. Your opponent then can deduce that you do not have the flush and that his weak flush is good. He bets and then you give him EXACTLY what he wanted in the implied odds and you stack off.

Very crappy outcome for a good hand, but hopefully you see that you did yourself in by allowing him the odds to call and fish for the flush. I've learned through experience that if you THINK the flush might be out there, then bet it where they are making the mistake by calling and fishing. You make most of your money when your opponent makes a mistake and lose most of your money when you make the mistake.

[eejit101]

absolutely! I knew i played it like ****. did you never think he had a lower set?

[ffcowboy76]

Due to the fact that flopping a set is so low, I very rarely give thought to an under set when I set. This is a minor loss of value as he will likely want to push the action on the flop more times than not. However, this is something to give credit to if we do not flop a set and the betting rolls off like it did.

I've found a trend starting where more and more people are either making a small raise or calling one to see a flop with either suit connectors or suited semi connectors. I've also seen an increase in the number of weak suited A's entering raised pots. I've also noticed a large number of people calling with flush draws without the odds.

The easiest way to make money playing poker is to make sure you make the fewest number of mistakes in comparison to your opponents. The biggest mistake made by the largest number of players is calling with draws without the odds. This means that we, as hopefully the better players, need to learn to slowdown when the flush comes in and some one check called to the river.

[eejit101]

I love you cowboy

[klinkman]

Cowboy, do you ever consider blocking this river? I definitely agree that we need to make a bigger bet on the turn, but against unobservant opponents, can we not block the river and find out if he hit the flush or not? Seems like that might save us money when he hits, and possibly makes us money from hands that might check behind.