cash table bluff

we played about 40 hands and he already sucked out on me once with me kK. but i stayed strong and this happen:

thenutz12234 jh9h
shanefalco9 Ad6h

flop: 9dks10h
turn: 8d
river qh

thenutz12234 Posts SB 0.50
ShaneFalco9 Posts BB 1.00
thenutz12234 Raised to 2.50
ShaneFalco9 Raised to 10.00
thenutz12234 Calls 8.00
ShaneFalco9 Checks
thenutz12234 Checks
ShaneFalco9 Bets 22.00
thenutz12234 Calls 22.00
ShaneFalco9 All In 18.46
thenutz12234 Calls 18.46
ShaneFalco9 Shows
thenutz12234 Shows
thenutz12234 Won 101.92 from pot 1 with King High Straight

what you guys think!!!

Preflop - fold.
Flop - Bet.
Turn - Check.
River - Fine

been playing the same heads up game and was up 80 bucks from what i started with....

two hit and runs for 20 dollars each both donked out!!!!


thenutz12234 Kckh
aceydueceypo AhQh

flop: 9s10hjd
turn: 8c
river A c


thenutz12234 Posts SB 0.50
aceydeuceypo Posts BB 1.00
thenutz12234 Raised to 2.50
aceydeuceypo Raised to 8.00
thenutz12234 All In 175.06
aceydeuceypo All In 14.50
aceydeuceypo Shows
thenutz12234 Shows
154.56 returned to thenutz12234 from pot 2
aceydeuceypo Won 46.00 from pot 1 with Queen High Straight

here is the second one!!



thenutz12234 10d10h

flop: kd9d2h
turn 7d
river q h



thenutz12234 Posts SB 0.50
takeuondarvr Posts BB 1.00
thenutz12234 Raised to 4.50
takeuondarvr Calls 4.00
takeuondarvr Checks
thenutz12234 Bets 8.00
takeuondarvr Calls 8.00
takeuondarvr Bets 12.00
thenutz12234 Calls 12.00
takeuondarvr All In 53.90
thenutz12234 Folds
takeuondarvr Mucks
102.90 returned to takeuondarvr from pot 1

This thread looks like a ticker tape

sorry i was furstated ringo!! i want some feed back though

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thenutzaa1

sorry i was furstated ringo!! i want some feed back though

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OK I will give it my best feed back effort.

That was then, this is now.
You may never see that player again.

I cant give feedback on those hands with no stack sizes, hands, actual pot info or anything.

What hand histories are they????

maybe i can try a attachmnet for you eejit

CAnt you get a normal hand history?

here is the one i want feed back in

I cant comment on that.

ITs 100% standard.

what you mean!!!

That the play there is basic, 2bet, 4bet push.

How else do u play it?

Flat call and push the flop?

And why dont you rasie normally?

ok i see now.....

he had 14.50 left i knew it was going in so i just pushed instead of raising 14.50

Oh boy. This is gonna be fun. On the hand the single biggest mistake I see is the initial raise you made. You only went 2.5x the bb with KK in a heads up match. Let me guess, you wanted action. When will people understand that you really DON'T want action with KK, even heads up. The better raise would of been somewhere around 5 to 7x the BB. Make him think about how bad he wants to play this particular hand.

Now, with that said, I don't really like the over push after being reraised either. I'm a fan of seeing a flop and out playing my opponent on the flop. Chances are on that particular flop he's going to push his 14 and change into the pot with 16 sitting in the pot and you will still call. BUT, to learn from this, sometimes it's better to see the flop and make a move there, showing that the flop doesn't scare you and pick up the pot. If you push preflop you take all of the different things you can do away from yourself and leave it up to the computer to decide.

Im not that bothered about the push preflop, theres enough in the pot for him to call, and you dont run the risk of a 456 flop to let him have fold chances against you.

I do dislike the bet sizing though

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eejit101

Im not that bothered about the push preflop, theres enough in the pot for him to call, and you dont run the risk of a 456 flop to let him have fold chances against you.

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I was speaking more in terms of general hand play. More people on this site like to push preflop and take all the possibilities away from themselves. It's almost like most people here are scared to play post flop.

I know that, and usually im right with you.

In general scenarios, with balanced chips, i can flat call this and go forward and outplay them post flop.

but in this specific hand, a push preflop is the simplest way to get it in, as its going in anyway.

Very true, but I'm on a quest to help people learn to play POST flop, rather than just pushing preflop all the time.

And im right with ya, but surely we cant do it in a hand where pushing PRE flop is the correct move?

ok i understand raising 5 to 7 times the BB.....if i did that he pushes i still lose!!! if i bet 7 he psuhes for his 22

and about the bet size i had 175 infornt of me and he had 22....i raised to 3 he reraised to 8.. instead of making it 14 more i just push for 155 or whatever i had left!!!


eejit how much of a favor am preflop

This is true, guess I should pen something about how to play post flop and post it in the tips section, so no one can read it.

There is no guarantee that he will push if you raise to 7. It shows him that you have something very strong and can make him question how good his AQ is. I'm not saying it will work every time, but if you pick up a few extra blinds with it, then you are profitable.

i am a post flop player!!!! thats how i make all of my money for example here is a nice read by me and a nice steal

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thenutzaa1

i am a post flop player!!!! thats how i make all of my money for example here is a nice read by me and a nice steal

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How is it a steal when you fish out the gut shot straight draw on the river?

yea i hit my stra. but i was pushing on the river anyways......plus a lot of hands beat me there....i was saying how i took control of that hand by reraisng him and he showed a lot of weakness

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thenutzaa1

i am a post flop player!!!! thats how i make all of my money for example here is a nice read by me and a nice steal

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Im going to go slightly mad here, and your going to hate me....

Right, you have K4. Off suit. In a HU game, this is a standard fold. One high card, one low. Off suit. No possible nut hands your drawing to. No possible anything. If a king comes... are you ahead? Noone knows.

Now post flop... Calling $2 on the turn with a gutshot is NOT a good play. There is $2 int he pot. Your getting 2-1. The odds of you hitting are 7.5-1(ish). Which is in no way good math. Even if you factor in the overcards, which you cant, as you have no idea if its a safe out for you, or even if the 6 is a safe out, your at like 6-1 odds.

Now the turn. I dont hate the play here, but id never have gotten this far. You are bluffing with only 4 outs in the DECK that can give you anything near the nut hand. If you get called, this is 92% of the time a complete waste of money.

The river comes, you hit your hand. Miracle time. Hallejulah.So what do you do. Do you trap check? No. Do you induce a bluff with a small bet? No. Do you value bet? No. Do you push all in and ONLY get called by a split pot/better hand? YES.

What the hell is this river move accomplishing. You cant even argue its an overbet to look like a bluff. As he isnt calling with a pair or 2 pairs here. Not ever. He MIGHT call you with a set, if he is bad or has a read on you for having **** all.

I dont get how you can be winning money at HU games with these Level 1 plays. Your not thinking what they might have. Your not thinking what they think you have.

Iny my opinion you should stop playing HU cash poker right now

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thenutzaa1

yea i hit my stra. but i was pushing on the river anyways......plus a lot of hands beat me there....i was saying how i took control of that hand by reraisng him and he showed a lot of weakness

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Yes you did hit it.

If you were pushing on any river your going to lose money as more often than not your getting called by AJ or similar here.

You took no control of that hand. Your out of position, Your river bet looks weak if you miss. He showed no weakness here. He bet, you call, he bet, you raised, he calls.

IMO he is showing stregnth by commiting himself to the pot ont he turn.




The only way you can win this is with a river 6. And it came.

lol ok i agree with you totally not going to agrue with you on this one....in a mtt or sit-n-go i fold preflop insta.


hpwever in a cash table spec. hu i read this guy for a hand betwen Ak-A9o
any pocket pair really..... my point was when we came to the turn i rasied...he reaised and then i re-re raised.....any hand that beats me pushes all in or re re re raise me big....the only reason is b/c the river can make a lot of hands flush, stra.

now my point was he was weak and he was trying to win the pot with a cont. bet on the flop but i stuck around and ended winning.... now lets say the river came a blank i am still pushing here!!!

plus my read was he is a passive player post and trys to win pots by betting on the flop, turn, and river....

i am a poker player that can show you good cards and bad cards but i think 70% of the time i win this....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thenutzaa1

lol ok i agree with you totally not going to agrue with you on this one....in a mtt or sit-n-go i fold preflop insta.


hpwever in a cash table spec. hu i read this guy for a hand betwen Ak-A9o
any pocket pair really..... my point was when we came to the turn i rasied...he reaised and then i re-re raised.....any hand that beats me pushes all in or re re re raise me big....the only reason is b/c the river can make a lot of hands flush, stra.

now my point was he was weak and he was trying to win the pot with a cont. bet on the flop but i stuck around and ended winning.... now lets say the river came a blank i am still pushing here!!!

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Ill now rip this one apart.

In a cash table, you can "Read" someone for having AK-A9, or a pair.... with no action apart from a check from the Big blind? Are you Jesus? Thats technically impossible.

On the turn it went, bet by you, raise, 3bet by you. Now your assuming he was weak? He called the 3bet? Hes obviously hit soe part of this. Noone calls off $24 on some kind of random weak hand.

How can he continuation bet the flop? Theres no money on the pot.

Heres my reads using Level 3/4 analysis

If i were you, the "hero" here, on the flop id be 50% thinking Ax with no pair, 25% thinking 87-A7, 12% thinking x3 or x5, and 3% thinking set. With the other 10% for complete air and over pairs.

On the turn he is betting stronger. So narrow it down. He doesnt have AK, he doesnt have a drawing hand. He has IMO here J7/AJ or some kind of pair and flush draw combo. Thats the MOSt likely scenario for the passive turn call after the 3bet.

On the river, you pushed so we have no idea. You realise you lost a hell of a lot of extra bets on this river dont you? pushing wins you nothing.


As for him, he is putting you on absulutely anything preflop and on the flop. On the turn id be thinking you had 2 pair, possible set, again a possible flopped straight. Maybe KK/QQ/AA, as i know id play those hands similar to this, but id make correct bet amounts with them. On the river, id fold out.

Now you said you were pushing this river regardless.

Why?

If the river is an Ace.... your pushing? If its a K Q T 9 8 2. Your pushing?

Your getting called by AJ+ on this river, i guarantee it.

without a hand here, on a blank river, your just spewing chips.


As for the "70% of the time i win this" bit, even with those reads, you can take the "0" off that number.

well i am off to bed i will finish this tom.

p.s that thread you made about rate your slef i rated my self for cash games 25% this is why!!! all of my money comes from sit-n-go and mtt... i cant really agrue with you but i deff. think the guy had a weak hand to began with!!! i am think q6,k6 some hand like that!!!

Why would he go three bets with you with just a gut shot. Just because you are willing to push the action that hard with trash, doesn't mean he will call that amount with nothing. I agree with eejit, he had AJ, KJ, QJ, or something of that sort. If he had a set or two pair I can see a call on the river even with the push. I'm pretty sure his bet on the flop was a high card bet to see where you were at, which is common in heads up. The turn gave him top pair and he has you on a lower pair so he's willing to go with you.