Why did the short stack limp in from the 1st position?

OK
5 people left
Top 3 pay
I have 3800 chips on the button
Blinds 200/400
SB has 12000 chips
BB has 1100 chips
1st position 1900 chips
2nd position 5000 chips

1st position limps in for 400 with AQo
I make a move with A5 all in fold fold
call. I lost yes BUT.

Why did this player limp in short stacked with AQ?
He didn't have enough chips to reraise a raise and he couldn't have thought he might trap. He risked being called by SB and BB and losing.

What was he thinking there?

I would have raised pre flop with AQ.

This player plays alot of poker and is an above average player.
Not as good as me most nights.

If he limps he is 90% certain someone will shove over i guess.

I do it, but with stronger hands than AQ.

Plus if he limps, the 400 makes not much difference, and if you all call, he can possibly win a 9k pot

people with really strong hands AA -jj and AK will do two things from first postion LIMP or min raise!!!!

two source at full tilt poker acdemany the chris ferguson section on raising pre flop. he says min raise.

and second source doyle brunson super system one....he sayh limp as well.

now why do these pros say this. well to get a allin after them with a weak hand like A5 suited!!!

now if one person limps the short stack gets to see a flop very cheaply and is shoving.

for this guy to have 1900 chips and blinds being 200/400...he was thinking of this stargety that i mention above but was shoving on any flop.

so if you called here he is shoving for 1500 into a 1400 pot.on the flop... now you dont call a all in here with A5 if the flop comes K27 or a complete miss and he doubles up. so not a bad play from this guy but i like to do this with stronger hands like eejit said....

Most likely what he is thinking is there are only 5 people left so I can bide my time until I get pocket pair or something of the sort.

If the top 3 play and he only has 1900 chips there is still somebody with 1100 chips so if they go all in and lose he only has to wait one person out.

If he makes it to four people and this is his line of thinking, with 200/400 blinds, he can see if the big stacks or a middle stack and one of the big stacks make a move to knock someone out he gets payed.

That's probably his line of thinking because 5 people left he wants to get paid.

I'd rather go in with ATs than AQo with five people left because he has a better chance to hit his flush draw, etc.

That's what I would do.

He also has 4 and 3/4 the blinds so he can wait til the button passes to pick up a better hand.

I hope this helped you out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaciBlakely

Most likely what he is thinking is there are only 5 people left so I can bide my time until I get pocket pair or something of the sort. This is crazy. AQ is the same as any lower pocket pair, and better than 95% of other hands. This is the premium hand here. If he was "biding his time" he would fold. Not playing this hand here is the worst poker play id have seen in years.

If the top 3 play and he only has 1900 chips there is still somebody with 1100 chips so if they go all in and lose he only has to wait one person out.correct, but with an M of under 2 (M= total orbits remaining) You have 7 hands till you are all in. You cannot make the money by folding, you need to double at least once. if he folds round for 3 hands he is down to 900 chips. At which time he is all in with anything to try and stay in.

If he makes it to four people and this is his line of thinking, with 200/400 blinds, he can see if the big stacks or a middle stack and one of the big stacks make a move to knock someone out he gets payed. He cant. If he makes it after folding his blinds, and he is 4 handed. He has 4 hands left before he blinds out. He is out if he tries this, as everyone calls him when he is all in and cehcks down for the bust.

That's probably his line of thinking because 5 people left he wants to get paid. His line of thinking was exactly what my post was. No offence, or arrogance, but i got it right.

I'd rather go in with ATs than AQo with five people left because he has a better chance to hit his flush draw, etc. Thats mad. If youd rather do that then you seriously need to rethink your strategy.

That's what I would do.

He also has 4 and 3/4 the blinds so he can wait til the button passes to pick up a better hand. if the button passes and the blinds increase to the next level (300/600/60) he is down to i calculate 900 chips on his big blind. After putting the BB in and the ante, he has 240 left. That isnt enough for the small blind.

I hope this helped you out.

---

Umm, dont start hating again, but this makes no sense at all.

Ive put my thoughts in bold.


To summarise, playin this AQ is the only option here. This isnt even possibly debatable, noone else will bust, he cant fold in, he must play a hand. AQ is the best he will see if he is in this spot 150 times repeatedly, statistically he is ahead, and the way he played it, which i love in this spot, he can cash easil if the play works

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eejit101

Umm, dont start hating again, but this makes no sense at all.

Ive put my thoughts in bold.


To summarise, playin this AQ is the only option here. This isnt even possibly debatable, noone else will bust, he cant fold in, he must play a hand. AQ is the best he will see if he is in this spot 150 times repeatedly, statistically he is ahead, and the way he played it, which i love in this spot, he can cash easil if the play works

---

He asked for opinions and I was just stating mine. Do I have to get attack on every post I have ever made/choose to make.

He asked why he would, and maybe it would be the worst poker you have/had seen in seven years, but I thought that, so maybe this guy was thinking that too.

I don't want to get attacked on every single thing I post here, eejit.

You are starting to become personal because you are basically saying I am an idiot with every response I have. Please just leave me alone.

This is a poker thread.

Ill argue any poker desicions i see as wrong if i know they are wrong because it HELPS your game.

If you thought any of what you wrote is true, and then read my response (which i put alot of thought into) then youll know i am helping, as my reply there is very fitting, very true, and very factual.

But maybe the guys was thinking like I was. It doesn't mean he wasn't so I was adding my thoughts to it.

It just seems like you are trying to deliberlately disregard everything I write in this community and you never argue with other people like this. I was just trying to help I guess I won't post in these threads though because my opinion is obviously wrong, oh wise one.

lol. weird comment im about to make but ok...

In theory, there is no way he can be thinking this way. The donk move is to push here, the level 1/2/3 move is to push. The only play that is a limp/call is the Levle 4 good player move.

im just saying i could guarantee you this move was his intent.

In a poker sense this very standard as a poker thread response. IT is nothing personal, and your opinion here is very welcome.

If everyone posted an opinion, wheteher it is their own or just a theory, it allows for more advice and more thoughts behind plays.

Which is why im grateful for your response as otherwise i wouldnt have had a way to say what i said.

Its not a personal attack, its a poker response based on what you said.

Whether you would play like what u said is up to you. All i can advise is please dont, its not good for winning.

Noones opinion in poker is technically wrong, thats why its great to discuss. I hoping every time i write someone argues something ive written so we can debate sides of it and make it into something we can all learn from.

Every time i write a response i think about it nd learn as im writing it, and learn from what other write.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eejit101

lol. weird comment im about to make but ok...

In theory, there is no way he can be thinking this way. The donk move is to push here, the level 1/2/3 move is to push. The only play that is a limp/call is the Levle 4 good player move.

im just saying i could guarantee you this move was his intent.

In a poker sense this very standard as a poker thread response. IT is nothing personal, and your opinion here is very welcome.

If everyone posted an opinion, wheteher it is their own or just a theory, it allows for more advice and more thoughts behind plays.

Which is why im grateful for your response as otherwise i wouldnt have had a way to say what i said.

Its not a personal attack, its a poker response based on what you said.

Whether you would play like what u said is up to you. All i can advise is please dont, its not good for winning.

Noones opinion in poker is technically wrong, thats why its great to discuss. I hoping every time i write someone argues something ive written so we can debate sides of it and make it into something we can all learn from.

Every time i write a response i think about it nd learn as im writing it, and learn from what other write.

---

I have thought about that play over and over and the only logical conclusion is intentional play. Considering his chip stack comparrison
and only 5 players left. It was a very risky move by him. I would have raised everytime in that situation. A raise would eaither pick up the blinds and put him with a strong chip count or someone calls the raise and at least I know where I am at mostly. If his intention was to trap and get all his chips in. I believe he made a very poor play.

First, I think his play was an intentional limp with the hopes of a late push from a big stack so he can double. If he pushes preflop he figures any caller has a hand that could beat him, however, if he calls a late push their starting hand range is greatly lowered. The example is exactly what he wanted to have happen.

On to the "personal attack" portion of this thread. People need to understand that while not everyone plays the "proper" method of poker, others do. Some of the players that don't play the "proper" way want to learn that method. If I were to post something that wasn't "proper" I EXPECT someone to tell me so. More often than not, the "proper" play is based on math and can be supported by a long string of mathematical problems proving that play. Part of the point of this section is to allow people to get different opinions about why someone made what ever play they made, but most are looking to improve their game to prevent future problems like the one that caused them to post in this section.

Welcome back Cowboy

I still have a hard time seeing the logic in slow playing and hoping to double up there. If I were in his positon, I would have pushed all in hoping no one called and making the money.

A showdown is the last thing on my mind when I am on the bubble and short stack.

Being late in a tournament, the big stacks usually try to push the little stacks around. With this knowledge, the UTG short stack can limp call knowing that most big stacks will push any face card. I've seen it used before and have used it myself to gain a double late in a tournament when I really need it.