Healthcare debate

[freeringo]

Lets have our own debate on healthcare.
I don't know anything they are arguing about.
Isn't the Senate going to modify it?
I say we elected the Dem's to run the show.
Let em run the show. It's their turn anyway.
I remember Bush saying he would veto alot of bills before they even got to his desk. Obama is working for us and not the big money interests like Bush. I trust he will make good decisions for us.
Remember Bush saying we have great heathcare for everyone, it's called the emergency room. :icon_bs:

The people for the people

[TerpZone]

I'm against health care. I do not want my hand forced into buying health care. I don't believe it's the economically wise decision for someone my age to be covered as fully as the government would force, and I don't think its their place to force me to do so. I'd go into more detail, but I just opened my eyes.

[freeringo]

I'm against health care. I do not want my hand forced into buying health care. I don't believe it's the economically wise decision for someone my age to be covered as fully as the government would force, and I don't think its their place to force me to do so. I'd go into more detail, but I just opened my eyes.



It's hard to get involved in the overall debate when it is really an individual family issue. Everyone is different. I don't care how they plan to shift billions of dollars from there to here. I don't care if the industry makes less profit.
It doesn't effect me.
We can always change something later with new administrations.
I'm for: go with the flow of things.
We all have too many other things to focus our energies on than Healthcare reform. We elected people to make those decisions.
They weren't elected to help my kids with homework or give me a ride to work or make dinner and wash my clothes. They were elected to do the job none of us wanted. Now let them do their job.

[eejit101]

From what i know, BaracK Obama wasnt to give 46,000,000 people free healthcare.....

And doing this is making him not liked in the USA............. why???

Are these 46 Million people all dicks?

[PANAMHIEST]

From what i know, BaracK Obama wasnt to give 46,000,000 people free healthcare.....

And doing this is making him not liked in the USA............. why???

Are these 46 Million people all dicks?

Yes the majority of people are only interested in how to lined thier pocket cash. I personally believe that health care reform is needed, and should have been done long ago, when the economy was doing great. But if hads wont solve this, but i really hope that one day people who wouldnt normally be able to afford to get the medical care they needed, will be able to do so with the health care clan the obama administration is doing.

A really good movie to watch on this subject is called"Jhonny Q". If this health care reform doesnt work, can you imagine having to possibly taking drastic measures to save your son/daughters life? What if you needed heart surgery or you will die, and it is an available life saving surgery, but you cant afford it? then what? just die? Thats why we need this, and if i gotta be the odd man out in america, then great I love obama. I dont care if he is white, black, republican or democrat, he is doing something absolutly wonderful for humanity and his fellow americans, so god bless him. One day, his ideas may save my life even, and that greatly humbles me, and i will stand by my vote, no matter what happens.

[eejit101]

Ive seen the film "John Q". Dezel washington in it e.t.c

And my post was a joke, i thought it was funny. True tho as well

[TerpZone]

From what i know, BaracK Obama wasnt to give 46,000,000 people free healthcare.....

And doing this is making him not liked in the USA............. why???

Are these 46 Million people all dicks?

Because these people are rational, economically sound individuals.

People who supports public health care in the US are leftist drones who do whatever the DNC tells them.

Guess what guys? We can oppose the war AND oppose national health care!

It works in France. It won't work here.

[eejit101]

In the UK, we pay a set amount out of our wages each week/month.

On wages of £300 ($500 a week), i usually pay $45 or so in National Insurance.

This gives me free healthcare at all time, and hugely discounted dental

[TerpZone]

In the UK, we pay a set amount out of our wages each week/month.

On wages of £300 ($500 a week), i usually pay $45 or so in National Insurance.

This gives me free healthcare at all time, and hugely discounted dental

You're living in a much smaller nation (that I miss living in more than anything in the world) that isn't at the helm of medical research.

And you're paying 13% in insurance? That's less than most people in the states pay now and would bring our normal pay taxes to well over 25% of our paychecks.

Neither the logistics nor the economies of nationalized health care would work in the US, and that's not the bring up the issue of removed private, corporate, incentives.

[PANAMHIEST]

In the UK, we pay a set amount out of our wages each week/month.

On wages of £300 ($500 a week), i usually pay $45 or so in National Insurance.

This gives me free healthcare at all time, and hugely discounted dental

That is a unbelievably great deal, and I cant wait for the health care system to be put in place here. If there are some people out there who dont want it, and want to continue to pursue some sort of private health insurance, then they should be able to opt out it it at thier own risk, but after the reform takes place i wouldnt trust my health care to an already corrupt private health care system. I dont see many private health care insurance companies staying in business for long either.

[TerpZone]

If there are some people out there who dont want it, and want to continue to pursue some sort of private health insurance

If this is what you believe, then you're misinformed.

Have fun waiting 3x as long for an inferior doctor.

[eejit101]

Oh yeah, here ive had to wait a few hours, or whatever.

On average with a broken bone im in and sorted and out within 3 hours.


Also - we do have to pay tax on our earnings btw on top.

So in total if i earn 500, say i pay $50 in NI, and another $45ish in tax.

[freeringo]

You're living in a much smaller nation (that I miss living in more than anything in the world) that isn't at the helm of medical research.

And you're paying 13% in insurance? That's less than most people in the states pay now and would bring our normal pay taxes to well over 25% of our paychecks.

Neither the logistics nor the economies of nationalized health care would work in the US, and that's not the bring up the issue of removed private, corporate, incentives.


I honor your debate and oppinion but, you are not giving us any facts as to why you are against it.
Will it cost you more per month or less per month?
Does anyone know?
We need to all walk in each others shoes to really have a judgement on this subject.
I am already on National healthcare and I am OK with it. I get to see a doctor of my choice and get timely appointments.
Medicare has recently cut back on dental maintenance and optomentry.
We all have to pay something on our healthcare. Some can afford more than others. The American family budget was designed for families to pay less than 30% of our wages on housing. I pay 60% or more.
Without Medicare I would not ever be able to afford Health Insurance.
However, some of you may not know this but if you don't have Insurance, there is a thing called sliding scale payment option. I pay 25% of my bill at the doctors office for low income. This is cheaper than the $30 copay
Blue cross offers. Not to mention the $1500 deductable and monthly premiums that went up 42% this year from last year.

[TerpZone]

I honor your debate and oppinion but, you are not giving us any facts as to why you are against it.
Will it cost you more per month or less per month?
Does anyone know?
We need to all walk in each others shoes to really have a judgement on this subject.
I am already on National healthcare and I am OK with it. I get to see a doctor of my choice and get timely appointments.
Medicare has recently cut back on dental maintenance and optomentry.
We all have to pay something on our healthcare. Some can afford more than others. The American family budget was designed for families to pay less than 30% of our wages on housing. I pay 60% or more.
Without Medicare I would not ever be able to afford Health Insurance.
However, some of you may not know this but if you don't have Insurance, there is a thing called sliding scale payment option. I pay 25% of my bill at the doctors office for low income. This is cheaper than the $30 copay
Blue cross offers. Not to mention the $1500 deductable and monthly premiums that went up 42% this year from last year.

Capitalism is alive and healthy, and the best system for this country.

At my age with no family, I'd prefer to save the money on health insurance and go uninsured. I'm a healthy enough individual for this to be an economically sound decision and the last thing i want is for the government to make the decision for me. Its not their place and I don't want to be forced into health insurance be it with required health care like is in place in Massachusetts or with universal health care where it comes out of my taxes.

Systems like the system in Massachusetts should be in place but WITHOUT a mandate requiring the insurance. Insurance should be allowed to be sold across state lines, and like the system in MA, there should be places that show you every option available. (think travelocity for health insurance) I would support this. It will get affordable health care to most everyone. Add some restraints on the insurance companies, and bam, we don't need some ****ing french socialist system that ****s all but the lower class. This would ease up the prices of the private system and make options available to those who cannot afford it currently.

It also allows those who want to pay more to be treated with greater celerity.

This is a system of capitalism. This is a system of personal responsibility. This is a system that PROVIDED INCENTIVES to pharmaceuticals to develop new drugs and for students to enter a track towards medical services. This a system that provides some of the brightest minds and some of the best doctors in the world.

Nationalize health care, and these incentives are gone. We are forced into buying insurance that some of us don't want. Cutting edge drugs will no longer be developed because no company will see reason to pound money into developing them without hope of any fiscal return. And the doctors in this country will become run of the mill and no longer the best in their fields.

(edit--I have not proofread this so excuse any mistakes with grammar or incorrect words)

[PANAMHIEST]

This is a little tidbit of information that is going on about the health care debate and how some americans truly are not interested the well-being of each other. I personally, cant sit aside and watch someone die, such as a young child with fixable heart problems, and be happy i save $45 bucks a week outta my paycheck. That is just inhumane, and selfish, and people who are this way, is the reason why society in america today is so ***d up.

So i ask who cares? I do, and im willing to shell out 45 bucks a week or so to help my fellow neighbors and americans have a better tommorrow and better health. Im not selfish,and its not about taxes or money to me, it about what we should do as people as to help one another.

here is the link i was referring to:
Britons defend their health care from US criticism - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090814/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_us_health_care)

[freeringo]

Capitalism is alive and healthy, and the best system for this country.

At my age with no family, I'd prefer to save the money on health insurance and go uninsured. I'm a healthy enough individual for this to be an economically sound decision and the last thing i want is for the government to make the decision for me. Its not their place and I don't want to be forced into health insurance be it with required health care like is in place in Massachusetts or with universal health care where it comes out of my taxes.

Systems like the system in Massachusetts should be in place but WITHOUT a mandate requiring the insurance. Insurance should be allowed to be sold across state lines, and like the system in MA, there should be places that show you every option available. (think travelocity for health insurance) I would support this. It will get affordable health care to most everyone. Add some restraints on the insurance companies, and bam, we don't need some ****ing french socialist system that ****s all but the lower class. This would ease up the prices of the private system and make options available to those who cannot afford it currently.

It also allows those who want to pay more to be treated with greater celerity.

This is a system of capitalism. This is a system of personal responsibility. This is a system that PROVIDED INCENTIVES to pharmaceuticals to develop new drugs and for students to enter a track towards medical services. This a system that provides some of the brightest minds and some of the best doctors in the world.

Nationalize health care, and these incentives are gone. We are forced into buying insurance that some of us don't want. Cutting edge drugs will no longer be developed because no company will see reason to pound money into developing them without hope of any fiscal return. And the doctors in this country will become run of the mill and no longer the best in their fields.

(edit--I have not proofread this so excuse any mistakes with grammar or incorrect words)
Capitalism is greedy, corrupt and evil.
The capitalists have raped our country and left us with no manufacturing jobs like we use to have. The old America is gone.
The new America is all about working less hours, more entitlements and communing with family and community. We cannot go back to the dog eat dog world we just went through.
Think about it a minute.
50% of homeowners are under water
Min. wage and P/T work has taken over most industries now.
You tell me how the vast work force is going to feed the capitalist machine anymore.

[freeringo]

Raise Min. wage to $13 an hour and we all could afford our own way.

That's not going to happen.

The biggest Union in California is the prison guard union.

I will never be a prison guard. Wall marts hiring.

[TerpZone]

This is a little tidbit of information that is going on about the health care debate and how some americans truly are not interested the well-being of each other. I personally, cant sit aside and watch someone die, such as a young child with fixable heart problems, and be happy i save $45 bucks a week outta my paycheck. That is just inhumane, and selfish, and people who are this way, is the reason why society in america today is so ***d up.

So i ask who cares? I do, and im willing to shell out 45 bucks a week or so to help my fellow neighbors and americans have a better tommorrow and better health. Im not selfish,and its not about taxes or money to me, it about what we should do as people as to help one another.

It is very ignorant of you to think that not supporting health care is selfish and mean spirited towards the needy.

here is the link i was referring to:
Britons defend their health care from US criticism - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090814/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_us_health_care)

One can donate their time and money to hundreds of charities. I don't want the government as an intermediary between me and the needy, and I don't want to pay as much as the government would have me pay for healthcare.



Capitalism is greedy, corrupt and evil.
The capitalists have raped our country and left us with no manufacturing jobs like we use to have. The old America is gone.
The new America is all about working less hours, more entitlements and communing with family and community. We cannot go back to the dog eat dog world we just went through.
Think about it a minute.
50% of homeowners are under water
Min. wage and P/T work has taken over most industries now.
You tell me how the vast work force is going to feed the capitalist machine anymore.

Capitalism is great and has provided every great thing this country has ever accomplished.

I think you're confusing capitalism and laissez-faire

[TerpZone]

This is a little tidbit of information that is going on about the health care debate and how some americans truly are not interested the well-being of each other. I personally, cant sit aside and watch someone die, such as a young child with fixable heart problems, and be happy i save $45 bucks a week outta my paycheck. That is just inhumane, and selfish, and people who are this way, is the reason why society in america today is so ***d up.

So i ask who cares? I do, and im willing to shell out 45 bucks a week or so to help my fellow neighbors and americans have a better tommorrow and better health. Im not selfish,and its not about taxes or money to me, it about what we should do as people as to help one another.

here is the link i was referring to:
Britons defend their health care from US criticism - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090814/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_us_health_care)

Also, it is very ignorant of you to think that opposing national health care is a result of selfishness and indifference towards the poor and needy.

[PANAMHIEST]

Also, it is very ignorant of you to think that opposing national health care is a result of selfishness and indifference towards the poor and needy.

why else would someone not want something that is gonna help out others in need of this reform then? It cant be from an economic stand point either, becuase instead of having to pay sometimes outrages fees and co- payments, and whatever else a insurance company can come up with, you pay for a very strick, governed price for health care. Itll help the doctors, because they will be getting patients coming in for services that normally wouldnt be able to afford those services, thus resulting in more money for the hospitals, the staff, and the medical industry as a whole.

[freeringo]

Even homeless shelters are run by big business.
They get more than twice as much money per person from the state
than it would cost the state to just pay for their food and rent.
They make money off the homeless.
Get the greedy corporations out of the equation and we would have enough money to get all 60 million Americans living in poverty back on their feet. That's 1 in 5 Amricans living in poverty.

You were saying?

[TerpZone]

why else would someone not want something that is gonna help out others in need of this reform then? It cant be from an economic stand point either, becuase instead of having to pay sometimes outrages fees and co- payments, and whatever else a insurance company can come up with, you pay for a very strick, governed price for health care. Itll help the doctors, because they will be getting patients coming in for services that normally wouldnt be able to afford those services, thus resulting in more money for the hospitals, the staff, and the medical industry as a whole.

Because of the economics of it and the loss of incentives. I don't mean to insult you, but you're wrong about the economics of national health care.

[TerpZone]

Even homeless shelters are run by big business.
They get more than twice as much money per person from the state
than it would cost the state to just pay for their food and rent.
They make money off the homeless.
Get the greedy corporations out of the equation and we would have enough money to get all 60 million Americans living in poverty back on their feet. That's 1 in 5 Amricans living in poverty.

You were saying?

I don't even know what you're saying or where these numbers are coming from.

But corporations are, as much as you'd like to argue it, not evil. Greedy, maybe, but evil certainly not.

[freeringo]

Because of the economics of it and the loss of incentives. I don't mean to insult you, but you're wrong about the economics of national health care.


It is also proven that if they get all the young people to get routine check ups through life, it will greatly reduce Heathcare costs in the future.

Once all the baby boomers are gone, our children will live in a very prosporus country. Less compitition for jobs and less burden on society.
The next 20 years will be rough, but after that wonderful.
President Obama has his children in mind, I am sure of this.
That's all I need to know to just trust he knows what he's doing.
We elected him to do the job, now let him do it with our support.

[eejit101]

I love this thread.

Not because i care, because as a british person i really dont that much, but id like to think you guys are getting a good deal, and from this i have no idea if you are or not.

But Terpzone seems like an educated man. Welcome to the forum.

Tho i still think your a bit of an a$$:)

[freeringo]

I don't even know what you're saying or where these numbers are coming from.

But corporations are, as much as you'd like to argue it, not evil. Greedy, maybe, but evil certainly not.


The facts are that none of us can wrap our heads around the health care issue. We elected officials to make the right decisions for us.
It's time to let them do their dirty thankless jobs that none of us want.
Either trust in the Electoral process and our democratic system or pray for better days to come again.

I can tell you right now, that the republicans won't be in power ever again. They have shot off all the toes on both their feet.

Get use to the New World Order of, For the people by the people, or you will be unhappy for a very very long time.

Fear mongering is dead, we are so numb to it now. Thanks George

[TerpZone]

It is also proven that if they get all the young people to get routine check ups through life, it will greatly reduce Heathcare costs in the future.

Once all the baby boomers are gone, our children will live in a very prosporus country. Less compitition for jobs and less burden on society.
The next 20 years will be rough, but after that wonderful.
President Obama has his children in mind, I am sure of this.
That's all I need to know to just trust he knows what he's doing.
We elected him to do the job, now let him do it with our support.

What does any of this have to do with nationalized health care?

[TerpZone]

But Terpzone seems like an educated man. Welcome to the forum.

Tho i still think your a bit of an a$$:)

I'm definitely vocal and have a LOUD opinion, but I don't intend to be mean! :D

[eejit101]

"Screw you guys.... I'm going home."

"But eej, home is that way ---->>>"

"Screw you guys, I'm going that way ---->>>"

[TerpZone]

The facts are that none of us can wrap our heads around the health care issue. We elected officials to make the right decisions for us.
It's time to let them do their dirty thankless jobs that none of us want.
Either trust in the Electoral process and our democratic system or pray for better days to come again.

I can tell you right now, that the republicans won't be in power ever again. They have shot off all the toes on both their feet.

Get use to the New World Order of, For the people by the people, or you will be unhappy for a very very long time.

Fear mongering is dead, we are so numb to it now. Thanks George

Bush is not indicative of the right. Just like most of the morons currently heading the DNC are not indicative of the left. I am personally a fiscal conservative, social liberal. I don't need a label and won't make decisions and form opinions based on labels. This country is being tourn apart by these stupid labels and people blindly supporting and opposing policy based on these labels.

You need to not look at the right as some evil and destructive entity. Form your own opinion on their policies. Take the time to learn them. Don't let the left tell you how to feel.

And trust in the elected officials? lawl. There's a reason Obama's ratings have been falling quickly.

And mostly, trust in the elector system? The elector college should have been banished a century ago.

[freeringo]

Bush is not indicative of the right. Just like most of the morons currently heading the DNC are not indicative of the left. I am personally a fiscal conservative, social liberal. I don't need a label and won't make decisions and form opinions based on labels. This country is being tourn apart by these stupid labels and people blindly supporting and opposing policy based on these labels.

You need to not look at the right as some evil and destructive entity. Form your own opinion on their policies. Take the time to learn them. Don't let the left tell you how to feel.

And trust in the elected officials? lawl. There's a reason Obama's ratings have been falling quickly.

And mostly, trust in the elector system? The elector college should have been banished a century ago.


Go ahead and take up arms then.
I let the officials pay huge staffs to read these bills and laws so I the average Joe Public don't got to.

You are too active in politics for your own health.
You should run for office of something.
I can tell you from a long history of experience, being an elected official sucks. It's the lowest job you can have.
When ya get there, let us know which of the special interest groups you support. There is one on both sides and 1/2 your constituents hate you all the time.
Best of luck.

There is way more to life than politics. Take what they give you and be happy about it.
What else ya going to do? Move to another country?
If so, which one?
You better have a lot of money for another country to except you.
If you made all your wealth in America, then it is your duty to support the new American ideals, like the old ones that made your wealth possible.
If you are poor and live paycheck to paycheck like most of us, then you welcome change in the system. I mean change in a big way.
Sit down and watch the movie, there's nothing you can do about it.
There is absolutely nothing the right wing can say or conjure up that would even catch the ear of the new majority of Obama supporters.

That is why your argument is so amusing.

[TerpZone]

Go ahead and take up arms then.
I let the officials pay huge staffs to read these bills and laws so I the average Joe Public don't got to.

You are too active in politics for your own health.
You should run for office of something.
I can tell you from a long history of experience, being an elected official sucks. It's the lowest job you can have.
When ya get there, let us know which of the special interest groups you support. There is one on both sides and 1/2 your constituents hate you all the time.
Best of luck.

There is way more to life than politics. Take what they give you and be happy about it.
What else ya going to do? Move to another country?
If so, which one?
You better have a lot of money for another country to except you.
If you made all your wealth in America, then it is your duty to support the new American ideals, like the old ones that made your wealth possible.
If you are poor and live paycheck to paycheck like most of us, then you welcome change in the system. I mean change in a big way.
Sit down and watch the movie, there's nothing you can do about it.
There is absolutely nothing the right wing can say or conjure up that would even catch the ear of the new majority of Obama supporters.

That is why your argument is so amusing.

Are you kidding me? Your response is that I'm too informed on the issues and that I should take what is handed to me and be happy about it and not want things to change?

It is my DUTY to accept what the current powers decide?

And you think MY argument is amusing?

This went from informed debate to you being a crazy misinformed, ignorant leftist.

I'm done with this debate. You can't have informed discussions with people who refuse to think logically.

You're one of the people I was referring to before; you accept whatever you side tells you to accept and think that your party can do no wrong. You are what you hate about the right.

[BnLM5]

In the UK, we pay a set amount out of our wages each week/month.

On wages of £300 ($500 a week), i usually pay $45 or so in National Insurance.

This gives me free healthcare at all time, and hugely discounted dental

This all sounds wonderful but you pay weekly and religiously for this health care yet you wait, how long for dental care when you are in pain?

It would be great if every American had free health care. By doing this but then the next thing you know they have you in jail because you can't afford health care, Just like car insurance. The cost are unGodly amounts.

Nonetheless right now at this time there are Sooooooo many American people who are unemployed the numbers are in the millions. (Employment Situation Summary (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm)) What about health care for them or their children?

This is way too much thought for me right now..... Gawd I hate politics!

[TerpZone]

This all sounds wonderful but you pay weekly and religiously for this health care yet you wait, how long for dental care when you are in pain?

It would be great if every American had free health care. By doing this but then the next thing you know they have you in jail because you can't afford health care, Just like car insurance. The cost are unGodly amounts.

Nonetheless right now at this time there are Sooooooo many American people who are unemployed the numbers are in the millions. (Employment Situation Summary (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm)) What about health care for them or their children?

This is way too much thought for me right now..... Gawd I hate politics!

To be fair, national health care CAN work in smaller countries, and it does. It just won't work here.

[freeringo]

I am now a leftist. how funny. I didn't even vote.
But I trust the ones we did vote for to make the decisions.
I didn't vote because I live in a County of 75% Republicans and in a state of 75% Democrats. The last time I voted was as an independent.

I choose to except life as it comes and not make waves.
I am the perfect American. Yes sir. I will send my children to fight in our wars. I will not protest. This new world was meant to be, we have been indoctrinated for decades to be except this.

We will have chips in our arms and you can't stop it.

[TerpZone]

I am now a leftist. how funny. I didn't even vote.
But I trust the ones we did vote for to make the decisions.
I didn't vote because I live in a County of 75% Republicans and in a state of 75% Democrats. The last time I voted was as an independent.

I choose to except life as it comes and not make waves.
I am the perfect American. Yes sir. I will send my children to fight in our wars. I will not protest. This new world was meant to be, we have been indoctrinated for decades to be except this.

We will have chips in our arms and you can't stop it.

I have a brother preparing for his second tour. I respect him and all the people in the military. But I still don't support this war.

I agree with no voting though. I refuse to vote in anything but local elections as long as the outdated electoral college is in place.

Your main problem is that you trust the men in office to make the right decisions. It's your duty as an American to NOT give them free reign with their power and to speak up when they do something objectionable.

This new world is meant to be? What does that even mean? By who? God? Ronald McDonald? Michael Vick? The most American thing an American can do is question their government.

[BnLM5]

"We the people of the United States of America in order to form a more perfect union....." I tend to agree it is our duty as Americans to pay attention and be aware of what is going on within our government. If this were not so it would be entirely corrupt by the simple ways of nature. Obviously some people are more passionate for one thing in life and others are more focused on something entirely different and always at the same time. We all have our own set of priorities in life every single day and they are always different list. Because "you are you and I am me". We are all at different places in life. People have different values, morals, ideas, and opinions and that is okay. Just because we disagree on this or that does not mean you are wrong or that I am wrong it just means that we disagree. Just because one person does things differently and depends on faith and trust in a given situation does not make him a leftist nor does the fact that the other may go on intuition/gut feeling and desire to be a part of keeping things orderly and in check mean that person is too active in politics. I believe that change can be a good thing in some situations and a not so good thing in another. But the fact remains that we will face change always nothing stays the same not even the weather. If we all were pure at heart, and we are not, it would be a perfect world but it is not. And I am sure the worst of this is yet to come. :)

I don't remember where I read this but I love it so I will share as I believe it is a good time...

Look at snowflakes each one uniquely shaped and beautiful, very light and would melt away easily as it lands alone.... But look what snowflakes can do when they stick together.... They can move the earth and crush anything that gets in its way.

[TerpZone]

Look at snowflakes each one uniquely shaped and beautiful, very light and would melt away easily as it lands alone.... But look what snowflakes can do when they stick together.... They can move the earth and crush anything that gets in its way.

Not a firepit.

[BnLM5]

Not a firepit.

Well thank you for reading my long philosophical post! I can't believe you only had three words to nay say. lol If you are talking about an abyss of a burning hell I will agree with you. But you can't tell me that a very large snow ball, or an avalanche of snow will not put out a measly fire pit! My Nay Sayer Friend! :toetap05:

[TerpZone]

A big erupting volcano.

[taylovesthebeatles]

Well I have a lot to say on this issue but it'll have to wait until I'm more awake to make an actual useful post. I'll just start though by saying that health care is one of the most important issues I have to think about, so this is a big big topic for me. Stay tuned. And thanks for posting this thread, it's good reading and hearing everyone's opinion of the issues. I love these kinds of discussions!